ECA Stack

I've heard an ECA Stack is an excellent combo with the Keto Diet with Appetite Control and Energy for lifting days. Few questions concerning:

• What's a good ECA product? Do i buy the seperate pills or are their combined pills/packs? (I've done a quick search for ECA STACK on google and found products like http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/s1/ecastack.html?MCID=FGOOG -- is this an okay product? or what do you suggest? (Also, i don't need any "Hardcore" stack, just a simple, even low dosing stack will do. (Don't want to go overboard)
• Should i keep the Aspirin? I know some people drop the A, what are your suggestions? Ive read the Aspirin has benifits regarding your heart.
• Who's used the ECA Stack before? What are your thoughts/feelings about it?

Thanks in advance =]

Any advice out there?

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

well first off thats not ephedra, if you want a real ECA product check out zenalean, yellow haze, yellow bullet

It does work but like all supplements they supplement good diet and training, and dont over do it this stuff is mighty potent, start with just one a day and if your over 200 you can probably Work your way to 2 servings

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

White Willow Bark is in this product instead of Aspirin.  Not quite the same results.
Make your own from the 3 ingredients.

drop the A and keep the EC. aspirin can actually thicken your blood when you take it for extended periods of time. u can add in yohimbine instead

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

I know there are caffiene pills, but where could i find the plain ephedra pills? Any local drugstores or gnc?
 
I weight 195, so what are your suggestions on the dose for the caffiene and ephedra? I've heard of people getting pretty addicted to the caffiene when taking large amounts?

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

Daniel265


drop the A and keep the EC. aspirin can actually thicken your blood when you take it for extended periods of time. u can add in yohimbine instead

^ this. +1

you can get addicted to caffeine pills pretty easily. they'll help with energy and staying awake. i've also heard the pain from headaches afterwords are unbearable.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Here's something to support why "A" isn't necessary.

I tried listing the source and it kept coming up invisible for some reason, but Google "EC" stack and you'll find this:

Regarding Aspirin Popular ephedra supplements of the past often contained aspirin (or its herbal equivalent, white willow bark). I do not endorse adding aspirin to the EC stack. If you wish to add it, stick to the baby aspirin (81mg). I have several reasons for this
1) The major study(24 weeks!) on the efficacy and safety of the EC stack when used over a long term for weight loss did not include aspirin. Yes, it is VERY effective without the aspirin.
Quoting Brian Hay****'s article,

• In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by a calorie restricted diet and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20 mg), caffeine (200 mg) or placebo three times a day for 24 weeks. Average weight loss was significantly greater with the combination than with placebo from week 8 to week 24. Weight loss in both the ephedrine only and the caffeine only groups was similar to that of the placebo group.

2) The "effective dosage" at which aspirin was added to the EC stack was at 325 mg. 325 mg of aspirin 3 times a day puts you at risk for developing ulcers and other gastrointestinal symptoms. Again, if you would like to use it to decrease risks/chances of high blood pressure, stick to the 81mg aspirin.
Quoting RxList's aspirin page

• Doses of 1,000 mg per day of aspirin caused gastrointestinal symptoms and bleeding that, in some cases, were clinically significant. In the largest postinfarction study (the Aspirin Myocardial Infarction Study (AMIS) with 4,500 people), the percentage of incidences of gastrointestinal symptoms for the aspirin (1,000 mg of a standard, solid-tablet formulation) and placebo-treated subjects, respectively, were stomach pain (14.5%, 4.4%), heartburn (11.9%, 4.8%), nausea and/or vomiting (7.6%, 2.1%), hospitalization for GI disorder (4.9%, 3.5%). In the A.I. and other trials, aspirin-treated patients had increased rates of gross gastrointestinal bleeding. Symptoms and signs of gastrointestinal irritation were not significantly increased in subjects treated for unstable angina with buffered aspirin in solution.

3) Aspirin is an NSAID (nonsteriodal antiinflammatory drug), and NSAIDs should not be used long term at dosages of ~1000 mg a day except if under the supervision of a physician.


Just make it EC and you're good.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Thanks Guys,

Yeah i'll be sticking with the EC.

-(20mg/200mg) Is that recommended? Also any thoughts on where to get the seperate Ephedra?

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

I just bought some Primatene Tablets online, just Google "order primatene" and sites come up, I bought 50 tablets for $13.00, I just have to get caffeine pills now.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Yeah i heard a few guys get their Ephedrine from Asthma Meds.

Is 12.5mg enough E for the stack to be effective? and does the Guaifenesin USP have any side effects i should watch out for?
I know its a cough congestant and i should drink alot of water, but i'll be doing that anyway with the cut.

For caffiene i'll be using 200mg Capsules.

When's a good time to take the EC? With Pre-WO Meal 1Hr. Before?

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

ya primatene is primarily used as an asthma medication. use the ephedrine in 25mg doses and just spread them out evenly throughout the day, preferably on an empty stomach. but make sure not to take some ephedrine and caffeine within a few hours of trying to go to sleep

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

Hmm.. I could probably take the first set around 10:30, a few hours after breakfast and an hour or so before lunch. So thats (12.5mg/200mg) then the second around 2:30 -after school-(12.5mg/200mg).

Is that enough time apart? Also should i take both doses before i work out?
Which will be around 3:00.

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

You can get it in Canada, we sell it as a decongestant.

http://www.supplementscanada.com/cgi-bin/sc/productsearch.cgi?storeid=*1e720ddbc50fd4852631f5c70e8f97b733

Regarding my post earlier,

"Is that enough time apart? Also should i take both doses before i work out?"

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

Yeah, I noticed no one had answered it yet, don't think that I'm ignoring it, I just don't know, I'm new to this stuff like you are.

The best people to talk to about an EC stack are Daniel (he's answered a few times) and Rollingstone; if RS views the thread you'll get a pretty good answer. I think he's pretty familiar with EC stacks, so is soccerking3000.

To me personally, that probably sounds fine, but don't take my word over theirs if they say something different.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I would take upon waking and before your afternoon workout.

Hmm.. Alright. I'll start with the mornings before breakfast then ill take my second dose after school. Seems pretty convenient and hell, i can always adjust the timing =P I'll also see if RS or Daniel has any suggestions, thanks.

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

Noob question:  The EC stack for cutting:  What's the purpose?  To suppress appetite, to stay awake, or to maintain higher metabolism?  Thx!  :)

It's a weight-loss stack that helps with cutting and cutting plateaus and it helps a lot with energy too. It was originally an "ECA Stack" but the aspirin can cause stomach ulcers, rot your stomach, can restrict blood flow, etc. so "EC" is much safer and just as effective. "E" for ephedrine and "C" for caffeine. Ephedrine is getting harder to find but it's generally found in asthma medication.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


It's a weight-loss stack that helps with cutting and cutting plateaus and it helps a lot with energy too. It was originally an "ECA Stack" but the aspirin can cause stomach ulcers, rot your stomach, can restrict blood flow, etc. so "EC" is much safer and just as effective. "E" for ephedrine and "C" for caffeine. Ephedrine is getting harder to find but it's generally found in asthma medication.

Understood, but what does the EC do exactly to help with cutting?  To cut to the chase:  When I do decide to cut, how would you recommend I go about it?  Keto diet I'm guessing.  Maintain resistance program, going as heavy as possible.  Slowly drop calories to below maintenance.  HIIT/LISS when fat loss stalls?  If I as an ecto try to cut with little cardio but maintaing heavy resistance routine (as heavy as possible despite loss of strength, energy) will I be losing mostly fat initially or do I need to do cardio from the outset?  Thx!  :)
 
edit:  Reason I'm asking about the EC stack:  I've never cut before and don't know what to expect:  Hunger, tiredness, drop in metabolism, weakness, loss of energy, irritability.

Personally, I feel this is a superior cutting plan.

Routine Style: Upper/Lower split
Routine Principles: DC- 30 second RP's with 80% of your 1RM
Diet: CKD
Supps: Mono, Animal Pak, Whey Protein, EC Stack
Cardio: HIIT (early in the week after carb up days, then later in the week gradually switch to lower intensity, Dante recommends lower intensity with his program anyway seeing it's really taxing).

I'm unsure about how ephedrine and caffeine works other than increasing energy which would result in you burning more calories and having more efficient workouts; thus, could help preseve muscle mass. Just I've heard a lot about the headaches after caffeine pills and they're not pretty.

I do think the above is the best approach for cutting though. I'm at 14% (from 13%) and I'm trying to hit 7% before this summer, I'm trying one due to a plateau. At 5'8" 160 pounds below 10% I should be happy with that.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


Personally, I feel this is a superior cutting plan.

Routine Style: Upper/Lower split
Routine Principles: DC- 30 second RP's with 80% of your 1RM
Diet: CKD
Supps: Mono, Animal Pak, Whey Protein, EC Stack
Cardio: HIIT (early in the week after carb up days, then later in the week gradually switch to lower intensity, Dante recommends lower intensity with his program anyway seeing it's really taxing).

I'm unsure about how ephedrine and caffeine works other than increasing energy which would result in you burning more calories and having more efficient workouts; thus, could help preseve muscle mass. Just I've heard a lot about the headaches after caffeine pills and they're not pretty.

I do think the above is the best approach for cutting though. I'm at 14% (from 13%) and I'm trying to hit 7% before this summer, I'm trying one due to a plateau. At 5'8" 160 pounds below 10% I should be happy with that.

Thx MVP!  I look into DC.  Could the U/L split be done Mon Tue Thurs Fri?  Is CKD the same as keto?  I know the KD means ketogenic diet, no?  What's the 'C' mean?  What's Animal Pak?  Thx again!  :)

Animal Pak are vitamins that contain a lot more vitamins in general than conventional vitamins, they were designed for weightlifters with high calorie demands. They have a lot of other things in them too like performance optimizers, digestive things, etc.

CKD = Cyclical ketogenic diet. It's what everyone here does, it includes the carb-up day, TKD is the other version without a carb up day, instead you'd just eat high-G1 carbs pre and post workout, better for strength maintenance according to some but not as good for fat loss.

DC is really good, you'll love doing it, I'll never switch back to conventional sets except for squats, deadlifts, maybe vertical pulling, and barbell rows. I posted the upper/lower split I made in the chin-up thread under OOB, it has a lot of accessory movements because it's geared towards advanced lifters though. Conventional DC is a good routine too though, but upper/lower splits will really shock you on how effective they are.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Thanks MVP!

Mcswollen:  Sorry for jacking your thrread.

Not a problem JMBS, I prefer the extra discussion because i'm on the same page as you although i've been cutting for a month now and i feel like i could use the boost to get to 7-8%. I've also been researching about keto for a long time, did not want to jump into anything right away. The EC alone has helped many people drop that stubborn fat that never seems to go away, so combining it with a good diet/excerise plan, it can work wonders.

As for  "Routine Principles: DC- 30 second RP's with 80% of your 1RM" what exactly does that mean >.<?

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

I read somewhere that its a good idea to come off the eca with benadryl to clean out the beta receptors. What is the exact purpose for this? if there even is one?

Goals:
-Find more time to get to the gym..

McSwollen, look in Rollingstone, Daniel, Mavrick, a few others journals. That is DC technique. Have you ever read about it before? It's by a guy named Dante, it's a rest pause. Instead of doing traditional sets you would perform about 7-8 reps, take 10 deep breaths, then do it again until you can reach your ideal total. 15 is the recommended number although it depends on the individual and the movement. I've found a lot of people say they believe taking your 1RM on specific lifts and subtracting it by 25% is how much weight should be ideal. Starting out maybe subtract 30% and then add resistance as you go.

Most people like resting 30 seconds better and lifting with around 80%, just gradually work your way up to 80%, that way you can gradually prepare yourself for the heavier loads. HIIT is the best fat burning cardio around in terms of actual testing of aerobic capacity. Tabata, 20 rep squats, and circuit training are superior by HIIT is better in terms of running than conventional lower intensity cardio. The problem is it can burn more muscle, so it really depends on your metabolism and if you're willing to lose the extra muscle; many people claim they haven't lost an ounce of muscle with HIIT while others won't even consider it.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

No I havent read the DC technique, does sound effective in cutting with CKD though. Because with Keto your trying to keep as much of your strength/muscle volume as you possibly can so i believe that could actually help. 

I'll def be on HIIT during the cut, although ill probably be doing it the first three days after the carb up because.. towards the end of the week, i doubt i'd have the energy to sprint and continue to hit the weights hard.

Swollen 24/7

Supps: Whey, Mono, Fish Oil and Animal Pak.

Yep, you're correct. Towards the end of the week (since HIIT only uses glucose) it will break down muscle to meet it's requirements, so lower intensity cardio would be your best bet for muscle preserve then.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant