Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man!
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 Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man!

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Marc David

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Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 1:07 PM
This is an interesting topic.  I'm curious to know what the point of bodybuilding if you do whatever it takes (eat whatever, junk, etc) to gain weight.

I find this intriguing as I've seen the sport of bodybuilding to be generally unhealthy in many aspects.

Why would you learn about nutrition and then eat crap?  Because it takes too much effort to eat clean?  I can create a shake right now that is about 769 calories full of healthy stuff for bulking.  Why would I put a piece of low quality, garbage in my system for the sake of saving time?

I'm missing somewhere here I know it.  But what's the use in learning about nutrition if as a natural bodybuilder you do unhealthy habits?

I need about 3600 calories on average to put on weight.  That's a lot of good food.  And I'm not having a hard time eating that much with high density foods?

I am genuinely curious as to the reasons to forget about the healthy aspect and just slam down food for the sake of calories and overall weight gain.
Marc C. David
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BodyBuildingNovice

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 1:20 PM
I don't think I just eat... if I see calories I eat plain and simple. Just for example, today I went to AnW with my friends for lunch, mama burger was 1,50 for like 2 weeks so today I took 3 of em... I just wanna get to 200lbs and see what happens there... my goal right now is gain 30 lbs ( still appear shredded and lean ) and hit 200 ( and over ) on squat bench and deadlift by next summer..

You say eat big, I do.
My 5x5s as of November 2nd 2008.
Squat 155lbs
Bench 155lbs
Deadlift 155lbs

Connelly's 5x5s as November 2nd 2008
Bench 115
Squat 145
Deadlift 165

Andy11's 5x5 as November 2nd 2008
Bench 150
Squat 150
Deadlift 175
the Danimal

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 1:34 PM
Being a college student, it is tough to eat clean all of the time.  I have gotten pretty good at it, but it has come with a lot of sacrifices.  One of which is money.  I spend at least $70/week on food, even more when I am bulking.  This is buying good clean food.  I can kind of rationalize it b/c I am going to school for engineering and I'll be making good money after I graduate, but it would still be nice to have some coin right now, too.  It would be a lot cheaper to buy dirty foods.  Another sacrifice hits the social life.  My friends always want to go out on weekends and eat bad food and drink, but I don't let myself go with them.  Some people just need to go and hang out with their friends and their nutrition suffers.  I have turned into quite the boring person since I have learned about nutrition, but it will hopefully be worth it later.  I guess what I'm saying is that some people just have different priorities, levels of discipline, or are just plain lazy.
brihead301

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 1:35 PM
I'm all about eating healthy, but 100% clean eating is hard as hell to do. 

'Clean bulking' is also an extremely slow way to gain weight if you ask me.

Get the lifts stronger, and the muscles get bigger.   Eat tons of food to gain weight, and you will get stronger AND supply your body with the extra calories to build the muscle as well.  Yes you will gain fat, but you will get big and strong as well.

I say spend years bulking up and building strength and muscle, then when it's time do a hardcore 'cut'.

Cutting is really where the healthy eating aspect comes into play isn't it?

I'm just taking the advice from all the biggest dudes I know.    Imagine if you bulked up to about 300 lbs, and got as strong as you possibly could, then you went on a hardcore, healthy 'cut' and maintained your heavy lifting schedule.  You'd be a monster.

I don't look at things the way you do, but that's okay because this is a public forum, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.   I look at 'bulking' as gaining MASS and STRENGTH.  I say eat your face off if you want to gain as much mass and strength as possible. 

You look at bulking as gaining mass and strength, but trying to maintain the nice, ripped physique during the bulk (or at least as best you can). 

Obviously your way works, I have seen pictures of you.  Then again, you have been lifting for a very long time too.
 
I just think my way will work faster, and I'm only taking the advice from other very BIG and JACKED guys that tell me that. 
"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man
Marc David

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 1:43 PM
Hummm... interesting views.  I like!
Marc C. David
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RedJeep

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 4:01 PM
I would rather be fit than fat. My numbers keep going up and I don't eat  a bunch of crap everyday.
MikeMahony

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 4:27 PM
I believe that you should eat clean 80 to 90% of the time.  That means that if I eat 6 meals a day I can have 8 meals a week that are not "clean" and still hit 80%.  I've dropped fat and gained muscle doing this and it has made it easy to hit the calories I need.  I am with Marc on the healthy shake thing.  I can mix one up right now that is close to 1,000 calories of great stuff:  non-fat milk, whey protein, banana, oatmeal and fat free yogurt.  It tastes great and is awesome for bulking.  I generally have 2 of those a day (meals 1 and 2) and then just eat the rest of the time.  I am aiming for 3800 calories a day.  Coming up with 1800 more calories, especially when one of my meals doesn't have to be "clean" is easy and it has led to me gaining some muscle (finally).
Just completed a 12 week High Intensity Training program.  52% average increase in weight lifted for each exercise.  Up 12 lbs. body weight, down 1.78% body fat for an increase of 14.02 lbs. LBM and a decrease of 2.02 lbs. of fat. 
brihead301

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 4:28 PM
Oh, and when I say 'clean bulking' I also mean counting calories, and eating exactly 500 calories over maintainence.  I don't just mean crappy food.

I highly recommend mostly meats, veggies and other good complex carbs, but I surely don't hold back from pizza and burgers either. 

It's the 500 over maintainence thing that I don't like. 
"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man
RedJeep

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 6:21 PM
It is the contradiction between working out and eating crap that gets me. Plus, when I eat crap I feel like crap.
Yet

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 7:07 PM
When you need to eat over 5000 calories a day to gain weight, it's not as simple as making a 769 calorie shake six times a day.  It's very difficult to get 5000 calories from chicken, brown rice, fish and all other clean garbage.

I wouldn't advise eating totally dirty to anyone, however if you need to switch to white pasta to get the extra 1500 cals you need.  Do it.
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08
BodyBuildingNovice

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 7:32 PM
I though ''solid'' foods was where it's at, and twisted before posted something about your body not taking care of over 1,000 cals in one sitting, part of it going to garbage. why is everyone talking about throwing 1000 cals shakes 3 times a day
My 5x5s as of November 2nd 2008.
Squat 155lbs
Bench 155lbs
Deadlift 155lbs

Connelly's 5x5s as November 2nd 2008
Bench 115
Squat 145
Deadlift 165

Andy11's 5x5 as November 2nd 2008
Bench 150
Squat 150
Deadlift 175
RedJeep

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 8:48 PM
Who on here really needs 5,000+  calories just to gain weight?
<message edited by RedJeep on Monday, September 29, 2008 8:49 PM>
Soccerking3000

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Monday, September 29, 2008 9:22 PM
lol me, but also when you are bulking and gaining fat the fat isnt the only detrimental "side effect" of a dirty bulk and just eating as much as possible, think about cholesterol levels, sodium levels, ect ect, it isnt healthy to gain a ton then lose it...
twistedlink

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:25 AM
Im on 5500-6000 calories nowadays and im losing weight.

Severe ectomorphs need lots of calories, i know this is going to annoy people again but i shall once again bring up the discussion of genetics.

Has anyone seen me when i was 5'11" 110-115lbs?
Has anyone seen soccerking when he was 6'5" 140lbs?

Them pictures of us look disgusting, very VERY ill looking (of course soccer was actually ill, but thats beside the point)

Just because weve both added a load of mass doesnt change the fact that our genetics still have that bodytype, we just took steps to loophole it.

It doesnt mean our metabolism has slowed down.

Metabolism is through enzymes and natural bacteria, everyones bacteria count is usually in the same region, so the variable here is enzymes, enzyme counts do differ, they also do differ in actual design.

A lot of proteins are similar but are different, one persons pepsin might actually have a different (slightly) amino acid chain than anothers.

They both do the same thing, but slightly more efficiently etc.

Theres also enzyme count, and how well the negative feedback occurs, negative feedback is where little of A makes loads of B, loads of A makes little B.
Loads of B makes little A, little B makes loads of A.

Its so the body doesnt just conveyor belt out millions of enzymes, and this point is reached differently in different people.

Metabolism is controlled via these enzymes, and these enzymes are made by our literal base pair genetic code, enzymes are merely proteins, proteins are merely amino acid chains, and they are made from our nucleotides

http://algoart.com/aatable.htm

When you put 400-500 odd amino acids into a chain it makes a primary structure protein, then secondary then tertiary

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/PrimaryStructure.html

Secondary structure is made from certain amino acids "cohesion" to each other.

This is where one difference in amino acid can turn one protein into a completely different one.

Binding sites on enzymes arent quite 100% specific as basic biology textbooks like to make out, there are specific enzymes, but a lot do have a few different structures and can bind to a fair few things.

Not all proteins are the same, yet pepsin and its derivatives can bind to all parts of the proteins.


My point here is metabolism IS GENETIC, PURELY GENETIC

It can not be sped up, and it can not be slowed down, you can make secondary adjustments to "speed it up" or "slow it down" but this is merely giving your body extra tools or taking the tools away, its not changing the genetics and the true hardcoded metabolism remains the same.


Get an endomorph in here whos lost 150lbs of fat, get him to eat cake, he'll gain weight fast again, i on the other hand-wont.

Metabolism stays mostly the same, it only changes with age through hormones etc, which, again, is controlled by, DUN DUN DUN, genetics.

You might all be wondering why im posting this here, well, my point is people like me and soccerking cant really gain weight on a 100% pure organic diet like others can, i have always eaten white pasta and white rice because i can eat brown rice and brown pasta until my eyes pop out and im still starving.

Ive clean bulked before and it merely maintained my weight and lost bodyfat, i was gaining muscle, but too slowly for my liking.

Our water supplies have large amounts of chlorine, chloramine and fluorine in it.
Our atmosphere is full of sulphur, mercury, and god knows what else
Our foods (even organic) is covered in many chemicals
Our soils have mostly been tainted with chemicals in the past too


Eating slightly unhealthy isnt going to break any barriers, and eating unhealthily is a rather loose term.

By unhealthily i simply see "bad fats" as the only contributer to unhealthy eating, or sugars.

I dont eat sugars much, and as to bad fats, 20-30% of my fats are bad fats, but i dont think it will take 20 years off my life, and it helps me gain weight-so i do it.

Im against most fast foods, but i dont think brihead or me (who are the main guys who like the "stuff your face" approach dont eat fast food, we still shop for healthy foods, but high calorie alternatives)

where some may buy there own mince and make there own burgers, we'll just look on the back, see the macronutrients and mainly calories and say "thatl do"

Its not that were hiding in a corner munching on mcondalds etc, but counting nutrients to the point where you know exact ratios and have all these "perfected" diets is mainly for pros, weve got many decent physiques on here without that, and quite frankly as danimal says, we dont have the time, i know i dont.

Bodybuilding/powerlifting/weightlifting to me is a hobby, and everything i do trumps it.

I prepare many foods, and a lot are healthy, but if im peckish, yes i will buy a bucket of KFC, not really a problem for me





twistedlink

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Re:Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man! - Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:33 AM
cholesterol is converted into hormones when we are sexually active, all children or teenagers who have cholesterol problems are also almost sterile or have some form of hormone deficiency.

sodium levels are hard to increase to large amounts to be honest, our nervous system works on potential differences made by the sodium potassium pump, and just like petrol in a car this sodium runs out.

Now an average desk worker who drives to and from work will need on average 6-7 grams of salt OR 2.4 grams of sodium (sodium weighs half of chlorine therefore 2.4+ 4.8=7.2 grams salt as it is 1 chlorine to 1 sodium basically.

Hes probably burning around 1000 calories a day on movement, maybe a bit more.

We on the other hand are lifting sometimes accumulated 25,000-50,000lbs a day, every OTHER DAY.

we are lifting accumulated, small mountains, now this takes up a lot of sodium.

Apart from the endomorphs here who are new or still quite fat, and all newbs here, i dare anyone here (brihead would be a good one to test) to get there sodium levels checked who doesnt eat 100% clean, i guarantee they will be fine.

They make sports drinks with electrolytes now because they sweat out so many.

There have been times in the gym (after deadlifts) where i suddenly feel weak, drink some electrolyted drink, 10 minutes later im usually feeling a LOT better, and yes 10 minutes might be a long time, but i didnt sit down for the 10 minutes, i was working out.  (AND I EAT LOADS OF SALT, YET STILL RUN OUT)

Anyway, eating slightly unhealthy to gain an extra 1000 calories etc isnt a problem personally, the main point is were still eating healthier than 70%+ of the population and were exercising too.
<message edited by twistedlink on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:35 AM>



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