Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man!

This is an interesting topic.  I'm curious to know what the point of bodybuilding if you do whatever it takes (eat whatever, junk, etc) to gain weight.

I find this intriguing as I've seen the sport of bodybuilding to be generally unhealthy in many aspects.

Why would you learn about nutrition and then eat crap?  Because it takes too much effort to eat clean?  I can create a shake right now that is about 769 calories full of healthy stuff for bulking.  Why would I put a piece of low quality, garbage in my system for the sake of saving time?

I'm missing somewhere here I know it.  But what's the use in learning about nutrition if as a natural bodybuilder you do unhealthy habits?

I need about 3600 calories on average to put on weight.  That's a lot of good food.  And I'm not having a hard time eating that much with high density foods?

I am genuinely curious as to the reasons to forget about the healthy aspect and just slam down food for the sake of calories and overall weight gain.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

I don't think I just eat... if I see calories I eat plain and simple. Just for example, today I went to AnW with my friends for lunch, mama burger was 1,50 for like 2 weeks so today I took 3 of em... I just wanna get to 200lbs and see what happens there... my goal right now is gain 30 lbs ( still appear shredded and lean ) and hit 200 ( and over ) on squat bench and deadlift by next summer..

You say eat big, I do.

My 5x5s as of November 2nd 2008.
Squat 155lbs
Bench 155lbs
Deadlift 155lbs

Connelly's 5x5s as November 2nd 2008
Bench 115
Squat 145
Deadlift 165

Andy11's 5x5 as November 2nd 2008
Bench 150
Squat 150
Deadlift 175

Being a college student, it is tough to eat clean all of the time.  I have gotten pretty good at it, but it has come with a lot of sacrifices.  One of which is money.  I spend at least $70/week on food, even more when I am bulking.  This is buying good clean food.  I can kind of rationalize it b/c I am going to school for engineering and I'll be making good money after I graduate, but it would still be nice to have some coin right now, too.  It would be a lot cheaper to buy dirty foods.  Another sacrifice hits the social life.  My friends always want to go out on weekends and eat bad food and drink, but I don't let myself go with them.  Some people just need to go and hang out with their friends and their nutrition suffers.  I have turned into quite the boring person since I have learned about nutrition, but it will hopefully be worth it later.  I guess what I'm saying is that some people just have different priorities, levels of discipline, or are just plain lazy.

I'm all about eating healthy, but 100% clean eating is hard as hell to do. 

'Clean bulking' is also an extremely slow way to gain weight if you ask me.

Get the lifts stronger, and the muscles get bigger.   Eat tons of food to gain weight, and you will get stronger AND supply your body with the extra calories to build the muscle as well.  Yes you will gain fat, but you will get big and strong as well.

I say spend years bulking up and building strength and muscle, then when it's time do a hardcore 'cut'.

Cutting is really where the healthy eating aspect comes into play isn't it?

I'm just taking the advice from all the biggest dudes I know.    Imagine if you bulked up to about 300 lbs, and got as strong as you possibly could, then you went on a hardcore, healthy 'cut' and maintained your heavy lifting schedule.  You'd be a monster.

I don't look at things the way you do, but that's okay because this is a public forum, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.   I look at 'bulking' as gaining MASS and STRENGTH.  I say eat your face off if you want to gain as much mass and strength as possible. 

You look at bulking as gaining mass and strength, but trying to maintain the nice, ripped physique during the bulk (or at least as best you can). 

Obviously your way works, I have seen pictures of you.  Then again, you have been lifting for a very long time too.
 
I just think my way will work faster, and I'm only taking the advice from other very BIG and JACKED guys that tell me that. 

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

Hummm... interesting views.  I like!

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

I would rather be fit than fat. My numbers keep going up and I don't eat  a bunch of crap everyday.

I believe that you should eat clean 80 to 90% of the time.  That means that if I eat 6 meals a day I can have 8 meals a week that are not "clean" and still hit 80%.  I've dropped fat and gained muscle doing this and it has made it easy to hit the calories I need.  I am with Marc on the healthy shake thing.  I can mix one up right now that is close to 1,000 calories of great stuff:  non-fat milk, whey protein, banana, oatmeal and fat free yogurt.  It tastes great and is awesome for bulking.  I generally have 2 of those a day (meals 1 and 2) and then just eat the rest of the time.  I am aiming for 3800 calories a day.  Coming up with 1800 more calories, especially when one of my meals doesn't have to be "clean" is easy and it has led to me gaining some muscle (finally).

Tired of information overload?  Confused about which plan is the right one for you?  Get yourself out of the dark by going to http://www.fitnessexpose.com/ and learn how to get into the best shape

Oh, and when I say 'clean bulking' I also mean counting calories, and eating exactly 500 calories over maintainence.  I don't just mean crappy food.

I highly recommend mostly meats, veggies and other good complex carbs, but I surely don't hold back from pizza and burgers either. 

It's the 500 over maintainence thing that I don't like. 

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

It is the contradiction between working out and eating crap that gets me. Plus, when I eat crap I feel like crap.

When you need to eat over 5000 calories a day to gain weight, it's not as simple as making a 769 calorie shake six times a day.  It's very difficult to get 5000 calories from chicken, brown rice, fish and all other clean garbage.

I wouldn't advise eating totally dirty to anyone, however if you need to switch to white pasta to get the extra 1500 cals you need.  Do it.

Look down and me and you'll see a fool.  Look up at me and you'll see your Lord.  Look straight at me and you'll see yourself.

I though ''solid'' foods was where it's at, and twisted before posted something about your body not taking care of over 1,000 cals in one sitting, part of it going to garbage. why is everyone talking about throwing 1000 cals shakes 3 times a day

My 5x5s as of November 2nd 2008.
Squat 155lbs
Bench 155lbs
Deadlift 155lbs

Connelly's 5x5s as November 2nd 2008
Bench 115
Squat 145
Deadlift 165

Andy11's 5x5 as November 2nd 2008
Bench 150
Squat 150
Deadlift 175

Who on here really needs 5,000+  calories just to gain weight?

lol me, but also when you are bulking and gaining fat the fat isnt the only detrimental "side effect" of a dirty bulk and just eating as much as possible, think about cholesterol levels, sodium levels, ect ect, it isnt healthy to gain a ton then lose it...

Seems like people on here try to put things into black & white categories of "clean" and "dirty."  I believe this is at least partly human nature, trying to define things as "us or them," "good or bad" or "right or wrong," and you can see it in many aspects of our behavior, especially as regards politics.

Over on the clean side, we have whole grain pasta's, lean meat, vegetables, etc.

Over on the dirty side, everything else is lumped, some aren't really dirty, they're just not "super-clean": pizza, ice cream, white pasta, anything that isn't 100% whole grain, slightly fatty cuts of meat, white rice.  Foods like white rice, breads that contain some white flour, and even some pizzas aren't all that bad for you, and really should not be categorized as "dirty," imho. 

Perhaps the problem is the stricly black & white dichotomy.  Foods are not just clean & dirty, there is a continuum.

Also worrying about being "unhealthy" is a bit silly too when you think about it.  A young guy under 35 eating a lot to gain strength and muscle is not that bad.

If you make a whole lifestyle of no exercise and nothing but crap eating, then the health concerns may be greater.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

I just think my way will work faster

Given that an individual can only build X amount of muscle based on nutrition, training stimulation and the ultimate.. recovery...

Eating in excess of what's required for muscle creation will not get you anywhere faster.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

My statement is based on the following:

1.) When 'clean bulking', or eating just enough to gain minimal fat (aka. 500 calories over maintainence), it is very easy to undereat.  How many calories you use in a day fluctuates, and your maintainence increases as you get stronger, and your workouts get harder.  If you just eat LOTS of food, enough to BE SURE that you are eating enough to gain, then there will be no question that you have sufficient calories for repair, recovery, AND GROWTH. 

2.) More calories = more weight gained.  You will get stronger as you gain weight, correct?  When you get stronger your muscles grow, right?  Eating just enough to gain weight, but with minimal fat gains is limiting strength gain potential.  IOW, if you ate 1500 calories over maintainence every day, you would feel much stronger during your workouts, and you would definately be covered as far as having enough for maximum growth to occur.  Again, 500 over 'maintainence' is being too conservative, since you don't actually know what your maintainence is since it fluctuates daily. 

I was a beast yesterday at the gym, and I know I ate about 1500 calories MORE then I usually do.  My lifts were easy, and I feel great today.

3.) The guys that have 'been there and done that' ALL say the same thing - The BIG, JACKED GUYS SAY IT.  You gotta EAT BIG!!!!! They are all against the '500 over maintainence, all clean' bulking.    I treat them as a reputable source of information.
 
But basically, what I think it all comes down to is when guys think they are eating 500 calories over maintainence they actually are only eating just enough to repair thier muscles and MAYBE enough to recover enough (since 'maintainence' fluctuates).  Having an ABUNDANCE of extra calories ENSURES - REPAIR, MAXIMUM RECOVERY POTENTIAL, AND MAXIMUM GROWTH POTENTIAL.

So, it's not that 'dirty bulking' is building more muscle then 'clean bulking' it's just that it guarantees you that you are getting all the calories you need.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

Twisted, you said exactly what I was trying to get across, but you said it much better. 

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

This is one of the big dudes that I'm talking about that give the advice to 'just eat tons of food':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m6CW2lpRQ8&eurl=http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=104393&page=9

He's not fat at all.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

Has anyone just listened to their body?  When I exercise hard I build up an appetite. 

Unfortunatly it's not just listening to your body, or else you'd only maintain.  To gain a lot of weight, you have to eat when you're not hungry very often.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

brihead301


Unfortunatly it's not just listening to your body, or else you'd only maintain.  To gain a lot of weight, you have to eat when you're not hungry very often.

no that isnt true, if you eat when you are hungry and eat until you are satisfied you will gain weight, as long as you are working out properly.  The body is adapting to the stress induced by lifting weights and is building muscle and you are more hungry because of it, if you just eat when you are hungry you'll gain muscle and very little fat.  Its a very simple concept

i personally have seen the best of both worlds i guess you could say
 
in highschool i played football ( defensive line ) i weighed at my highest 275lbs and it ranged from there to about 250
 
when i was 275-250 i was fat, but i lifted and worked out every single day, i lifted hard and was strong

my maxes in highschool for squat were 550lbs and bench was 345 ( nothing crazy but i was also only 14-16 years old )

now i am about 190 and i consider myself a pretty strong guy but no where near what i used to be.

difference? diet..

back then i obviously weighed more, but i ate whatever i wanted just because i had to maintain size and gain strength

now that im 190 i watch what i eat, eat healthy, ( sometimes healthier then others ) but overall my strength gains are nothing in comparison to what they used to be

im not sure how many people ( probably none ) this applys too but i think when it comes to bulking clean/dirty you have to evaluate where you want to be in 6months, a year, 2 years and then go from there

I agree soccer when i lift im always alot hungrier but if im on a week break my appetite starts going down after 3-5 days then when i start lifting again BAM hunger is back.

I dont even count calories anymore i eat when i feel im about to start getting hungry and make sure i just make sure i get enough protein and bcaa's

Goal: Cut to less than 10% BF by summer.

just because you cleaned up your diet, i dont think that has any relation to why you are gaining more slowly than before...

I agree soccer when i lift im always alot hungrier but if im on a week break my appetite starts going down after 3-5 days then when i start lifting again BAM hunger is back.

I dont even count calories anymore i eat when i feel im about to start getting hungry and make sure i just make sure i get enough protein and bcaa's

damn skippy lol

what keeps me from eating ''clean'' is also how hard it is to eat consume most healthy meals... Like I mentionned yesterday I ate 3 burgers. Just now I ate around 15 slices of bacon.. whatever I could get my hands on.. I then watched at the bag and said 230 calories per 2 slice which is ALOT in my opinion because bacon, I could be eating this non stop all day long.. Don't ask me to eat 2 peanut butter toast tho, those are hard to put in... Bacon is high caloric but it feels like it never fills you up, I feel like I could last 1 day long on a peanut butter toast bite though.

My 5x5s as of November 2nd 2008.
Squat 155lbs
Bench 155lbs
Deadlift 155lbs

Connelly's 5x5s as November 2nd 2008
Bench 115
Squat 145
Deadlift 165

Andy11's 5x5 as November 2nd 2008
Bench 150
Squat 150
Deadlift 175

Soccerking3000

brihead301


Unfortunatly it's not just listening to your body, or else you'd only maintain.  To gain a lot of weight, you have to eat when you're not hungry very often.

no that isnt true, if you eat when you are hungry and eat until you are satisfied you will gain weight, as long as you are working out properly.  The body is adapting to the stress induced by lifting weights and is building muscle and you are more hungry because of it, if you just eat when you are hungry you'll gain muscle and very little fat.  Its a very simple concept

Hmmm..I've been doing just that, but I've been stuck at 200 lbs.  For me to gain weight, I've always had to eat when I WASN'T hungry.  It was always a pain in the a** for me, which is why I got lazy for the last few months and just stuck at 200. 

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

then there is something else that isnt right, maybe you arent getting enough sleep ect ect

I have beeing trying to bulk but I usually can't stick with it.  I have been gaining muscle and losing fat though.  I am clearly stronger and have bigger muscles but my weight has dropped 2 pounds sine I started "bulking"

Marc David


This is an interesting topic.  I'm curious to know what the point of bodybuilding if you do whatever it takes (eat whatever, junk, etc) to gain weight.

I find this intriguing as I've seen the sport of bodybuilding to be generally unhealthy in many aspects.

Why would you learn about nutrition and then eat crap?  Because it takes too much effort to eat clean?  I can create a shake right now that is about 769 calories full of healthy stuff for bulking.  Why would I put a piece of low quality, garbage in my system for the sake of saving time?

I'm missing somewhere here I know it.  But what's the use in learning about nutrition if as a natural bodybuilder you do unhealthy habits?

I need about 3600 calories on average to put on weight.  That's a lot of good food.  And I'm not having a hard time eating that much with high density foods?

I am genuinely curious as to the reasons to forget about the healthy aspect and just slam down food for the sake of calories and overall weight gain.

Just curious..do you know a site for recipes for some "clean" weight gainers?

 Maybe like a homemade shake or something. Usually in the morning I have a bagel, bananna and protein shake but I know its not enough. I'm short of time a lot during the day so shakes would really help. (not the garbage weight gainers though, homemade is better IMO)