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[Deleted] - 9/10/2006 3:13:24 PM
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/11/2006 1:53:19 PM
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scottie
Posts: 173
Joined: 7/20/2006
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high reps gives you endurance, low reps gives you str, to build muscle, or in other words, size, you need to build str, lower reps is best, usually anywhere from 4-8 is betetr for str and muscle gains. any higher than that you lean more towards the endurance side.
_____________________________
Age: 17
Height:5'11
Weight:178lbs
Max Bench:265lbs
13 1/2" unflexed
15 1/2" arms flexed
Goals:
180lbs
Max bench:300 lbs
17"arms
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[Deleted] - 9/11/2006 3:55:09 PM
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/11/2006 5:24:00 PM
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scottie
Posts: 173
Joined: 7/20/2006
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it all depends on your b/f%, you cant see your muscles if you have a high b/f%, but to get more size, yes lift heavy instead of light.
_____________________________
Age: 17
Height:5'11
Weight:178lbs
Max Bench:265lbs
13 1/2" unflexed
15 1/2" arms flexed
Goals:
180lbs
Max bench:300 lbs
17"arms
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/12/2006 8:04:01 PM
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Bibs
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/30/2006
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So would do 50 reps of 50 pouds good for building stregnth?
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/13/2006 12:17:13 PM
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scottie
Posts: 173
Joined: 7/20/2006
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no, like i said, low weights high reps builds muscular endurance, low reps high weights builds strenght, in other words, use enough weight taht you can only do around 4-8 reps with on a set. much more reps than taht, you begin to go into muscular endurance, i stick at the 4 rep range, making sure on the first or second set i have to really push for 4, then on set 2 and 3 i do as many as i can, usually 3 for set 3 and 2 for set 4. i keep doing taht until i can do all 4 sets with 4 reps, then i up teh weight.
_____________________________
Age: 17
Height:5'11
Weight:178lbs
Max Bench:265lbs
13 1/2" unflexed
15 1/2" arms flexed
Goals:
180lbs
Max bench:300 lbs
17"arms
(in reply to Deleted User)
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/13/2006 6:04:47 PM
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95gtdriver
Posts: 194
Joined: 1/24/2006
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for building size its 8-12 reps i do believe...
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weight-170
height-5'8"
3 rep bench-225lbs
Deadlift-260lbs
squat- 200lbs
aprrox body fat-13-15%
I'll leave your girlfriends panties gummy and have her walking funny." - WC
Stack- ON 100% whey, Xceed, & a little Muscle Milk for good mea
(in reply to scottie)
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/13/2006 6:53:47 PM
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Bibs
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/30/2006
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Ok thanks.... So would 10 reps of 145 pounds be good then? Or is 10 reps too many?
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/14/2006 9:13:33 AM
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Pchild
Posts: 21
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline
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I personally suggest you to try MAX OT training. Is quite good at the beggining. And is also fun. Make your research at google (i.e. putting MAX OT PDF)
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/14/2006 12:28:21 PM
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scottie
Posts: 173
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline
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nonono, to build size you have to build strenth, to build strenght you do low reps
_____________________________
Age: 17
Height:5'11
Weight:178lbs
Max Bench:265lbs
13 1/2" unflexed
15 1/2" arms flexed
Goals:
180lbs
Max bench:300 lbs
17"arms
(in reply to Deleted User)
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[Deleted] - 9/15/2006 3:37:15 PM
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Deleted User
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[Deleted by Admins]
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/15/2006 4:37:26 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6299
Joined: 11/20/2005
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The science I reference is very clear...your routine is pretty darn good...mix it up though...variation = faster growth!
quote:
believe that low reps high weight will give you stregnth not size. not doing enough reps to cause any size changes. 4 - 6 reps?
Primarily strength..however it does maximally stimulate muscle fibers and can lead to some increase in size.
quote:
i guess ill stick to my 10 rep, 8 rep, 6 rep skale.
That would be combination type training.
Here is some of the science that can be found on this..they always find the same thing over and over...
Muscular adaptations in response to three different resistance-training regimens: specificity of repetition maximum training zones
European Journal of Applied Physiology, 2002 Nov;88(1-2):50-60. Epub 2002 Aug 15.
Subjects were divided into four groups:
- a low repetition group performing 3-5 repetitions maximum (RM) for four sets of each exercise with 3 min rest between sets and exercises,
- an intermediate repetition group performing 9-11 RM for three sets with 2 min rest,
- a high repetition group performing 20-28 RM for two sets with 1 min rest,
- a non-exercising control group
Maximal strength improved significantly more for group 1 compared to the other training groups.
Maximal Endurance significantly increased at the end of the study for only group 3.
All three major fiber types (types I, IIA, and IIB) hypertrophied for Group 1 and Group 2,
No significant increases were demonstrated for either Group 3 or 4.
The percentage of type IIAB fibers increased for all three resistance-trained groups 1-3.
Muscular adaptations to combinations of high- and low-intensity resistance exercises
The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2004 Nov;18(4):730-7
Tested long-term effects of resistance-training regimens with 3 types of regimens on serum growth hormone (GH) concentration and muscular size cross sectional area:
- hypertrophy type medium intensity (approximately 10 repetition maximum [RM]) short interset rest period (30 s)
- strength type - 5 sets of high-intensity (90% of 1RM) and low-repetition exercise
- combi-type - and a single set of low-intensity and high-repetition exercise added immediately after the strength-type regimen
Postexercise increases in serum GH concentration showed a significant regimen dependence:
hypertrophy-type was greater than combi-type which was greater than strength-type
Muscular size cross sectional area showed a significant regimen dependence:
hypertrophy-type was greater than combi-type which was greater than strength-type
----------------------------
Ya see..no confusion.
_____________________________
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http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
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[Deleted] - 9/15/2006 9:41:06 PM
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Deleted User
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[Deleted by Admins]
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: size vs stregnth - 9/16/2006 4:08:30 AM
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scottie
Posts: 173
Joined: 7/20/2006
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im not saying anyones wrong, im going to say this: i have tried the 8-12 range, i did it for about 6 months, then i changed to 4 reps, and when i say 4 reps, i mean the 1st set, i struggle to do 4, the last 3, i push to get as much as i can, which is i use enough weight that limits me, and in doing that, i have gained more strenght in 2 weeks, than i did in months doing 8-12 reps, in reference to size, to build size, you HAVE to build strenght,(you have to give your muscles a reason to grow right? which only makes sense) and this way ive been working out, has built the most strenght and size for ME, over the 8-12 rep range.
_____________________________
Age: 17
Height:5'11
Weight:178lbs
Max Bench:265lbs
13 1/2" unflexed
15 1/2" arms flexed
Goals:
180lbs
Max bench:300 lbs
17"arms
(in reply to Deleted User)
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RE: size vs strength - 9/16/2006 7:21:34 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6299
Joined: 11/20/2005
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Just to be clear bro..strength is a neural adaptation (the body learns better recruitment and firing patterns in muscle) separate from gaining mass. Strength can even be inverse to mass. Meaning as you get stronger, you can also get smaller. The body adapts and tries to do the most work while maintaining the least muscle.
Now you have been progressing, forcing adaptations and getting stronger and larger (and you are 16 so you are a hormone pod  ), using this ONE-dimensional way to get gains in both...you will get stronger by pushing progressive loads..but your diet will determine if you gain in size.
To build size you DO NOT have to build significant strength. There are 20 other ways (other than adding weight) to add a periodized or progressive component to training that will also elicit an optimal hypertrophic response.
They are all viable tools, over decades I have had success with dozens of clients from all ages using them ALL.
For you Scottie, even though you are seeing continuous gains in size and strength, I would recommend varying your training to let certain things in your body (joints, ligaments, tendons) recover from the ONE-dimensional training...(I was you 20 years ago...you want to take care of the body for the long haul!)
Almost all methods of training are correct. There is not a right or wrong (per se). So vary your training, progress, periodize...and see even better results!!!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
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RE: size vs strength - 9/20/2006 11:58:25 PM
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henry3
Posts: 98
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: New South Wales, Australia
Status: offline
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id prefer to do a bit of mixing between general strength and power training with for example if u start with 135x15 then
157x10 then 180x6 and ive increased in strength im to fat to tell if ive packed on much size but id say i would
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[Deleted] - 9/21/2006 2:19:45 PM
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Deleted User
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(in reply to henry3)
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RE: size vs strength - 9/22/2006 2:10:51 AM
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jkoelmel
Posts: 384
Joined: 2/17/2006
From: Little Elm, Tx
Status: offline
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my reps during any given day of working out can run the gamut from the low 20s to about 2-3...you just have to experiment and find something that works for you...if everything worked for everyone we wouldnt have so many variations of exercises and such diverse opinions...
_____________________________
Let the pain come over you, but never overcome you.
If you don't live for something, you'll die for nothing.
Start: 04/05
5'9"
135#
25% BF
Now: 04/06
6'0"
180#
12% BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbvP7dT3Dx0
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[Deleted] - 9/22/2006 4:00:17 AM
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Deleted User
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[Deleted by Admins]
(in reply to jkoelmel)
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