Deadlift
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Deadlift - 5/14/2005 8:33:28 PM
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Gun Ryo
Posts: 752
Joined: 12/28/2004
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I was deadlifting the other day, 110 lb, i almost threw up doing them. Alright, I'm reading this and seems people are doing 350 and **** deadlifts. I do about 100 pounds usually. The strongest guy in our gym that can bench press over 300 pounds does 140 on the deadlifts. Am I not understand what a deadlift is? I can do the 100 about 8-10 times. Is my max really going to be around my weight? (I weigh 163) I don't really want to max my deadlift. I don't want to injure my back.
_____________________________
Hypnotised to realise that this surprise will end in demise in front of your eyes. Shining with lies you sent your spies, spat your alibies and your words rotted, rotted and attracted flies. Your boy cries but you proceed to fratenise with those baby blue eyes, eyes like the sky you pleaded for ties. Your stomach cries, and you envisionise a plate full of fries. Lord they are hot though, don't touch, I advise. But you are burned, and penalised, of course overdramatise and you get the prize. I am that boy baby girl and now I will end your 9 lives.
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RE: Deadlift - 5/14/2005 9:41:23 PM
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The Sheep Man
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I haven't done regular deadlifts yet but the stiff legged ones i was working with 185lb when i started this week, next week i will incorporate reg deadlift on leg day and i will inform you on what i can do. I think you need to get used to the motion and the weight should add on quicker, because its just a different kind of excercise. But it works out sooooo much muscle groups that if each one gets slightly stronger, then you capable weight will increase
(in reply to Gun Ryo)
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RE: Deadlift - 5/15/2005 6:18:45 AM
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Alcazar
Posts: 338
Joined: 4/5/2005
From: West Philadelphia Area
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The deadlift is an excellent addition to your workout that is one of the most productive lifts for increasing you strength, and especially, your size. As it is an olympic, and very compound lift, generally big numbers are put up. I prefer stiff legged deadlifts, as they target the same back area without hitting the legs nearly as hard (those legs will get their own workout later). Start with a weight that you can, with good form, complete 3 sets of 6 - 10 reps with. I prefer sets of eight, but that's just me. The following week, add 5 pounds. Now it depends on the quality and frequency of the rest of your workouts, but you should find that you can relatively easily add 5 pounds to you deadlift each week for quite a while so that you will have surpassed bodyweight in no time.
(in reply to Gun Ryo)
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RE: Deadlift - 5/15/2005 9:39:59 AM
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cpl
Posts: 5667
Joined: 5/26/2003
From: New York City
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quote:
The strongest guy in our gym that can bench press over 300 pounds does 140 on the deadlifts.
This is most likely because he prefers to pay much more attention to his chest and arms than to the rest of his body- Sure, everyone's built differently and all that, but generally speaking, barring any physical/medical problems, the average person who is working out every muscle group and eating reasonably well should have a higher deadlift max than bench press max. For some reason, people seem scared of the deadlift- No one wants to hurt their back trying to get used to them. The funny thing is, people are more willing to try throwing an extra ten or twenty pounds on their bench press- If you fail on a bench press, you could end up killing yourself, whereas if you fail doing a deadlift, you can always just drop the weights to the ground. Besides, getting used to the proper form and adding more weight to your deadlift will only improve your back strength, therefore decreasing the chance of injury to your back- And, besides the stronger muscles, you'll also have a better sense of how to use those muscles when performing some of the everyday tasks that seem to cripple the non-lifters.
My best advice- Get used to the form. If you feel like throwing up right now, lower the weight- Get comfortable with the exercise before you really start piling the weight on there. Treat your body well, and it'll reward you.
(in reply to Alcazar)
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RE: Deadlift - 5/15/2005 1:45:29 PM
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Weapon X
Posts: 986
Joined: 6/16/2004
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Interesting write up I found on the net... I guess some suggestions could be considered the authors preference on how to approah the lift.
 How to Deadlift
The Deadlift
The deadlift is a heavy compound movement that should be included in the exercise program of any lifter. As this lift will strengthen not only the entire back, but the musculature of the hips, abdominals, and legs, as well as work the grip, proficiency in this lift is a must. Like the squat, the deadlift will stimulate a growth response from the body that should carry over into strength and size gains in other areas.
There are two basic styles of deadlifting, conventional and sumo. Each style will be explained, and compared to the contrasting style. While certain aspects of deadlifting are similar, such as the fact that the lifter is basically picking a weight up off of the deck, and raising to the highest possible level without bending the arms, a great many differences in biomechanics occur as a result of the differing styles.
The conventional stance consists of the athlete standing with the feet approximately shoulder width apart, or slightly narrower. To position the feet properly, slide them forward as far as possible without moving the shoulders in front of the bar. The hips should be as close to the bar as possible as well, but the lower back must remain arched. The head should be elevated so that the athlete is looking forward and slightly upwards. The shoulders should be back, but slightly rounded. Retracting the shoulders causes the shoulder girdle to elevate, increasing the distance the lifter must pull the bar. The athlete must grip the bar tightly, and to ensure that the bar does not roll, a mixed grip (one hand supinated, one hand pronated) is often employed.
The true beginning of the deadlift is the set up, or the first phase (as it is known in Olympic lifting), which has already been described. The next step, before pulling the bar free from the deck is to fill the abdominal cavity with air. While drawing in as much air as possible, the goal is to push it down as far as possible, not fill the chest cavity. Filling the chest cavity with air elevates the shoulders, which will increase the distance the lifter must pull the bar.
The deadlift is initiated by simultaneously extending the knee and hip joints. The knee will extend due to the contraction of the quadriceps muscles (vastus lateralis, vastus medialis, vastus intermedius, and rectus femoris), and, during the extension, may move slightly to the rear. The hip joint will extend secondary to the contraction of the gluteus and the hamstrings (biceps femoris, semitendinosus, and semimembranosus). While the entire hamstring is active to a certain degree during the deadlift, the semitendinosus and semimembranosus are recruited to a much greater degree to extend the hip joint.
The bar should be pulled into the body, as well as up. This keeps the athlete from falling forward during the lift, as it helps maintain a far more stable combined center of gravity (CCOG). This is where the placement of the feet is a significant factor. If they are too far forward, causing the shins to be closer to the bar than necessary, the bar must be pulled around the knees, instead of past them. This shortens the lever arm distance and reduces the resistive torque.
During this period, and indeed, throughout the entire lift, the musculature of the upper back and shoulders (trapezius, latissimus dorsai, teres minor, subscapularis, infraspinatus, supraspinatus, as well as the anterior, medial and posterior deltoids) will be undergoing an isometric contraction to hold the bar in a stable position. In the arm, the biceps brachii, brachialis, and brachioradialis will also contract isometrically to stabilize the elbow joint. The forearm flexors are extremely active during the gripping of the bar.
The erector spinae (iliocostalis thoracis, iliocostalis lumborum, longissimus dorsai, and spinalis dorsai) will contract during the lift, along with the intertransversarii, interspinalis, rotores, and multifidus muscles to bring the spine into an erect position. These muscles become more active once the back is extended past a point that would be 60 degrees away from vertical. The inter-transversarii, interspinalis, rotors, and multifidus will also serve to stabilize the vertebrae and discs. In the conventional deadlift, the torso is inclined far more than in the sumo style, in direct contrast to recommendations for a more erect torso to reduce shear force on the lumbar vertebrae (4, 9, 12).
As the bar travels past the knees, and up the thighs, several key points must be noted. It is imperative that the knees not re-bend once they have begun to straighten. In addition to the extra strain this will put on the ligaments and tendons, secondary flexion of the knees (hitching) is cause for disqualification during a competition. Another mistake that is often made as the lift nears completion is the lifter will try to pull the torso back, when it is far easier to simply push the hips forward. This technique will allow the athlete to shift some of the strain from the erectors to the larger muscles of the hips, including the gluteus. At the top of the lift, the shoulders should be pulled back to indicate the completion of the lift. This is not necessary for routine training of the deadlift, but a powerlifter should practice this to avoid unnecessary red lights.
The major difference that occurs in the sumo deadlift is the placement of the feet. They are placed much wider, sometimes even twice shoulder width, although this is an extreme. The toes are turned outward, sometimes to the point where the angle of the feet approaches 160 degrees. There are several biomechanical advantages to this stance. The distance the bar must travel is greatly lessened as the hip angle is on average 12 degrees greater than the hip angles of conventional deadlifters, while the knee angle is approximately 13 degrees greater. (7, 12) The trunk angle is significantly closer to vertical, which, from a pure safety standpoint, the sumo stance decreases both L4/L5 moments as well as shear forces. (4) Furthermore, the sumo stance allows the lifter to keep the bar closer to the body, which shortens the movement arm to the lumbar spine. (12) This stance can reduce the total distance the bar travels by as much as 25 – 40%. (7)
The functional technique in the deadlift is different as well. The athlete pulling a conventional deadlift will push straight down with the feet, whereas in the sumo deadlift, the knees must be pushed out over the toes. This is important, to avoid lateral shear force on the knee, as well as the fact that it allows the lifter to engage the larger muscles of the hips earlier than in the conventional stance. As a function of the bar being closer to the lifter, it will contact the legs earlier. As the bar slides up the thighs, it is important to ensure that the fingers of the pronated hand are not torn open by the friction thus generated. A modest amount of baby powder or talcum may be applied to the legs to reduce the chance of this occurring.
One factor that has not been discussed that makes the deadlift unique among the three powerlifts is that unlike the squat and bench, there is no eccentric (lengthening, or lowering) portion prior to the concentric (shortening, or raising) of the bar. This has the function of negating the stretch reflex, a fact that is often overlooked by many athletes and coaches alike. There is a way of generating a small stretch reflex, which may help when initiating the lift, but nothing like the reflex that can be generated during the other two powerlifts. In the conventional stance, a slight rocking of the hips, which will cause the knees to flex as well, can be employed. The lift should be initiated when the hips are at the lowest point, and this movement must occur rapidly. Care must be taken when doing this, as if the hips descend too far, the lifter will be at a biomechanical disadvantage.
Unsurprisingly, there is a difference when using this technique when pulling sumo. This technique (often called ‘diving’) can allow the sumo lifter to generate a greater stretch reflex without moving out of position, unlike the conventional deadlift. Because the feet are father apart, instead of just raising and lowering the hips, the hips should be lowered rapidly then thrust forward at the bottom of the descent. This allows not only for a greater stretch reflex, but for an even more erect torso than lifters who pull from a static position.
Variations on the deadlift
There are several varieties of the deadlift, and can be used not only to assist in deadlift training, but can also significantly strengthen muscles that can be impeding progress in another lift. Some of these lifts can be used in place of the deadlift during training as well.
One of the most common variations of the deadlift is the partial deadlift, or rack lockout. These are usually performed in a power rack, with the pins set at a variety of heights. Pulls can be done from one inch above the deck to a couple of inches below lockout. As a general rule, the shorter the ROM, the more weight that can be handled. The primary function of the partial deadlift is to not only overload the muscles of the back, as well as increase motor recruitment. (5, 18) At times, the amount of weight that can be handled during the execution of a short range of motion rack pull can be so great that it surpasses the amount of weight the athlete can hold. In this case, it may be necessary to employ straps to secure the weight. (6)
Another common variation is the stiff-legged deadlift (SLDL) which will work the hamstrings to a much greater degree than the conventional deadlift. (2, 10) This lift should begin just like a conventional deadlift, and should be pulled to the top in the same manner. The knees will be stiff, but not locked, as the bar is lowered as far as possible without allowing the back to round. The lower back should remain arched throughout the entire lift, and if the back begins to round despite the best attempts of the athlete, it is necessary at this point to begin the concentric portion of the lift and raise the bar. The bar will travel away from the lifter as the hips are flexed progressively. There is greater torque on the hips and lumbar areas because of the greater horizontal distance from the bar to the base of the support than in the conventional deadlift. (3, 4, 17)
Despite the fact that numerous “muscle mags” often illustrate a lifter performing this exercise while elevated, this should be avoided by all at first and most athletes for the duration of their career. The greater the range of motion, the greater the chance of lifting with a kyphotic (round back) posture. (10) Artificially increasing the ROM will serve only to increase the chances of this occurring. It must also be noted that a comprehensive stretching program is essential to not only athletes, but everyone wishing to improve the ROM of this exercise.
The Romanian Deadlift (RDL) is used primarily to strengthen the hamstrings, gluteus, and lower back, although this technique causes less stress to the lumbar area. Unlike the SLDL, the RDL is initiated from the floor, although the set up is roughly in-between that of the conventional deadlift and the SLDL. (23) During the ascension, the knees should begin to straighten in advance of the hips, with the goal of keep the torso at the same angle as in the beginning of the lift for as long as possible. This should occur while maintaining normal spinal curvature. Pulling in such a manner allows the athlete to keep the bar closer to the base of support, decreasing the strain on the lumbar area when compared to the SLDL. As the knees fully straighten, the hips shall travel toward the rear slightly, then the hips are then powerfully flexed, fully utilizing the hamstrings and erectors to complete the lift. This lift is often performed by Olympic style weightlifters to increase the strength of the clean pull.
Another variation that is not often performed is the Snatch Grip Deadlift (SGL). This version of the deadlift is similar to a conventional deadlift, with the only difference occurring in the placement of the hands upon the bar. The grip is at least one and a half times shoulder width, while larger lifters will often grip collar to collar. A good general guide to novices is to extended the arms out to the sides, then bend only at the elbow. The bar should be held at approximately the width of the elbows. The difficulty of maintaining the grip in such a position, as the mixed grip cannot be used, will require the used of straps for those not very experienced in utilizing the hook grip. This lift will further stress the musculature of the upper back, particularly the trapezius. (19) This lift is often performed by Olympic style weightlifters to increase power of the first pull, making it easier for the athlete to raise weights from the deck.
A simple method of increasing the ROM of a deadlift is for the athlete to stand on a block. Once again, care must be taken to avoid kyphotic lifting posture. The increase in ROM will necessitate a decrease in weight.
Deadlift Training
There are far too many methods of training to improve the deadlift to list here. A few will be briefly discussed.
Periodization. This is a simple yet effective method of decreasing the volume while increasing the weight. This process occurs over a period of weeks or months. It is by far the most common method of training, although lifters are branching out in new directions daily. This method has been discussed in great detail in numerous other works, and will not be discussed further here.
Conjugate Training. This is a system of training the musculature of the lift without overtraining the CNS with respect to a single lift. The deadlift is not trained heavy throughout the cycle, and in some training cycles, may be trained only rarely. This method was first used in Olympic weightlifting by the incredibly successful Soviet Dynamo Club.(24) It was later used by the original Westside Barbell Club in the 1960’s and 1970’s, as well as some lifters on the East coast, including Bill Starr, a former Olympic weightlifter turned coach. (21). It is currently the system employed by the new Westside Barbell Club, of Columbus, Ohio, under the coaching of Louie Simmons, the most successful coach in powerlifting history.(20) This method will involve heavy assistance work for the lift itself, such as partial deadlifts, good mornings, etc. A list of assistance exercises can be found at: www.elitefts.com
An interesting variation for training the deadlift was employed by the great Don Rheinholdt, the first man to squat 900 lbs. in competition as well as being one of the first to deadlift over 800 lbs. He would set up with his opener in the power rack eight inches off of the deck, and pull it. He would then drop the pins one inch every week until the week before the meet, when the plates were just a single inch off of the floor. This allowed him to preserve his lower back while maintaining proper form.
A final word on a couple of myths. Numerous “experts” have cautioned against utilizing the deadlift, incorrectly stating that it is hazardous to perform. This is true, if the above cautions are not employed. While there can be a place for round back lifting in the program of the highly advanced lifter, this is a mistake for most and will not be discussed further. Other self proclaimed authorities state that you must wear a belt when deadlifting. A belt can help increase intra-abdominal pressure, as well as increase the force generated when deadlifting. However, the majority of the deadlifting done by any athlete should be performed without a belt to further recruit the core muscles (abdominals, obliques, etc.).
Last edited by Phreezer : 03-08-2004 at 10:53 PM.
(in reply to cpl)
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RE: Deadlift - 5/15/2005 3:51:09 PM
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Lynx100
Posts: 1649
Joined: 2/24/2005
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great post.
(in reply to Weapon X)
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RE: Deadlift - 6/14/2005 7:50:07 PM
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carlson
Posts: 2
Joined: 6/13/2005
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ok i can dead life 205 10 times for 3 sets and i havn't even gone for my max so my question is what the hell are you doing wrong or are you just weak??? not trying to be mean just confused o by the way im 209 6'
(in reply to Lynx100)
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RE: Deadlift - 6/15/2005 7:58:43 AM
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Gun Ryo
Posts: 752
Joined: 12/28/2004
Status: offline
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No actually for my size my back is probably strongest part of my body. And that is actually why I was posting this. I weigh 157 and can do 180 on pulldowns 3 times, (<- 3rd Set)
No one else in my gym under 200 pounds can do 180 that many times. I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing snice my back is very ripped. oh well thanks anyways guys
_____________________________
Hypnotised to realise that this surprise will end in demise in front of your eyes. Shining with lies you sent your spies, spat your alibies and your words rotted, rotted and attracted flies. Your boy cries but you proceed to fratenise with those baby blue eyes, eyes like the sky you pleaded for ties. Your stomach cries, and you envisionise a plate full of fries. Lord they are hot though, don't touch, I advise. But you are burned, and penalised, of course overdramatise and you get the prize. I am that boy baby girl and now I will end your 9 lives.
(in reply to carlson)
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RE: Deadlift - 6/24/2005 1:06:37 PM
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S13D
Posts: 14
Joined: 6/23/2005
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You get stronger on the dead eventually
when i just started the deadlifts, i didnt feel confortable and all so i only got 135 up for a couple and now like 6 months later im doing 275 for a couple
Dead, the form needs to be right, you can break any bones but if your spine breaks, you wont be going to the gym for a while.
For Dead, so many muscles are involved so training other parts of your body will be helpful too.
And you said you almost threw up, then just take it easy, at least you close to the strongest guy in the gym.
What do you measure how strong people are by how much they bench?
Its pound per pound that makes the difference or add there bench+squats+deadlifts and add them together and see the number compare to you or to other people. That is how i do it to see if you strong or not. I compare with people my weight and age group though
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Deadlift - 6/24/2005 8:27:56 PM
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pwolf66
Posts: 1022
Joined: 12/5/2003
From: Montgomery Village, MD
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Gun, I would seriously look at the following factors if you are straining that much at 110.
1) Your form. CRITICAL!!!! Are you lifting with your legs FIRST? Or are you trying to lift with your lower back first? The legs (specifically the knee joint first and THEN the hips) should engage first.
2) What training did you do before deadlifting?
3) How about what training in the 2 days before deadlifting?
4) How hard have you trained your legs?
5) How many sets at how much weight?
with your bodyweight and with your length of training I would reasonably expect you to be able to work out with 135 without serious effort so review those 4 points and make sure you aren't limiting your ability to perform deadlifts.
Paul
_____________________________
A friend helps you move, a true friend helps you move bodies.
(in reply to Gun Ryo)
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RE: Deadlift - 6/24/2005 9:32:59 PM
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DanOz
Posts: 92
Joined: 3/19/2005
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I don't know if this is correct or not, but my Deadlift increased when I concentrated on 2 things.
1/ Putting my weight on my heels (imagine you are driving your heels through the floor) & scraping the bar along the shins.
2/ Having my shoulders / upper body go up at the same time as my legs - ie just like you would when you stood up from a crouching position without weight.
Before I did this, I had a tendancy to straighten the legs faster than I straightened the back, which I felt put more strain on the back.
(in reply to pwolf66)
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RE: Deadlift - 6/25/2005 10:47:14 AM
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Mario
Posts: 89
Joined: 5/23/2005
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Yep you should scrap your shins with the bar, you have to "drag" it up your body. I'm not so sure about heels, i've seen a few kids on my powerlifting team do that and they send up falling on there asses with the weight. Keep your back straight with your chest out/shoulder locked.
When i get serious about my deadlift.... the skin on my shins comes off. Nothing like blood running down your leg pulling up 450lbs.
(in reply to DanOz)
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RE: Deadlift - 6/29/2005 9:04:26 AM
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joxicon
Posts: 9
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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I encounter a problem when I am deadlifting. When I wear gloves I loose my grip when I am lifting heavy weight. However when I lift without the gloves the bar tears the skin of my hands. What do you all do for hand protection? I know there are some weight gloves I can buy that emphasize good grip (the ones I have right now don't). Should I buy these gloves? I want it to be as if I am lifting bare handed(or better) and the skin doesn't come of my hands. Also I don't want to use those straps that cling around the barbell.
(in reply to Mario)
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RE: Deadlift - 6/29/2005 10:29:20 AM
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The Sheep Man
Posts: 2487
Joined: 3/27/2005
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ya avoid wrist straps... callous your hands up and all will be fine, other than you'll have crappy calloused hands, but then people will be like, look at those manly calloused hands
(in reply to joxicon)
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