Cut or Bulk Routine? You Decide (by looking at pics inside)

Folks,

Looking for your help. I need to choose the routine path that best suits my current situation -- the path of cut or the path of bulk.

Now before you look at the photos, be gentle. I'm not 19 anymore. This is a 40 year old's body.

I want to build lean muscle but at the same time trim that stubborn fat around the love handles. I've been told it's difficult to do both. Thus, I need to pick cut or bulk.

Which?

Before you chime in, a little more info about me:

* Age 40, 6-2, 208 lbs
* Workout: 5-6 times per week; Been doing german volume training for 4-6 wks
* Diet: Apprx 2600 calories per day, 191g protien, 131g fat, 156g carbs

Would be great to not only pick a path, but get a sense of the caloric intake and routine that would help me move along the path.

Thanks.

KY

Attached Image(s)

Whoa! You eat a lot of fat.

You can do both. It's called recomping and you're at the perfect body type to do that. Results come slower that they would if you took a strait shot in either direction but you kill two birds so to speak.

Have you ever thought of circuit training your lifts? You could work on building muscle and loose fat by cutting your rest times and turning your lift into cardio. It works really well for some people.

Add me on facebook!

rippedchick


Whoa! You eat a lot of fat.

You can do both. It's called recomping and you're at the perfect body type to do that. Results come slower that they would if you took a strait shot in either direction but you kill two birds so to speak.

Have you ever thought of circuit training your lifts? You could work on building muscle and loose fat by cutting your rest times and turning your lift into cardio. It works really well for some people.

She is correct. Same thing I'm working on. Ten years ago I cut from 240 to 202 in 90 days. Looked like a twig. Currently I have been working muscle gain and fat loss. Takes longer, but I still am keeping my muscle mass. Since last  year 2/21/08 I have lost 4 pant sizes, fill the arms out on my short sleeve shirts, and feel a heck of alot better about myself. Still a work in progress.
Drop your fat intake. Search the forum for diet: protein/carb/fat ratios. lots of good info here.
Good Luck!
WD

Team Keine Ausreden = No Excuses
mein scheinehund ist daheim
48 yrs young
6'5" 270 Lbs

Ripped and Wet,
 
Thanks much.
 
I keep hearing that you can't do both! And I have to choose!
 
I don't mind if it takes time. I want a routine and diet that has me gaining muscle and losing fat.
 
So what the heck is "recomping?" What are the routines?
 
I have recently been doing german volume training and I am contemplating moving to a heavy weight/low rep routine...like 5 x 5. Please provide some examples of what a routine would look like. I'm doing chest/back tmrw.
 
And as far as diet goes, I know I struggle to eat more than 2500 calories per day...and I was pushing it to try and "bulk." I'm thinking a caloric intake closer, if not below maintenance, may be a better approach. Any recos on % of protien/carbs/fat would be great.
 
Thanks.
 
KY

This routine my body response very well to:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/tm.aspx?m=390&high=max+ot

Team Keine Ausreden = No Excuses
mein scheinehund ist daheim
48 yrs young
6'5" 270 Lbs

As far as nutrition goes our resident expert Dan Whittaker (Danmirage) fills it all in
Look here:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Expert-Dan-Whittaker-Danmirage-f88.aspx

Team Keine Ausreden = No Excuses
mein scheinehund ist daheim
48 yrs young
6'5" 270 Lbs

Max-Ot.
 
More or less, this is the type of program I was going to move to -- low reps, heavy weight.
 
For example, I was thinking this is what I'd do for chest/back tmrw:
 
* bench press 5 x 5
* seated rows 5 x 5 (do pull right after push)
* Incline DB bench 5 x 5
* One arm rows 5 x 5
* Weighted pull-ups
* Weighted dips
 
NOt sure if this volume meets the requirements of Max ot, but this will seem low in comparison to german volume training.
 
What do you think?

Also, I know max ot likes much rest in between sets....I kinda like the little rest rip alludes to for cardio.
 
KY
 

kyoun1e


Max-Ot.
 
More or less, this is the type of program I was going to move to -- low reps, heavy weight.
 
For example, I was thinking this is what I'd do for chest/back tmrw:
 
* bench press 5 x 5
* seated rows 5 x 5 (do pull right after push)
* Incline DB bench 5 x 5
* One arm rows 5 x 5
* Weighted pull-ups
* Weighted dips
 
NOt sure if this volume meets the requirements of Max ot, but this will seem low in comparison to german volume training.
 
What do you think?

Also, I know max ot likes much rest in between sets....I kinda like the little rest rip alludes to for cardio.
 
KY
 

5X5 is a good workout. If you respond well to it, stay with it. I found at my age that one muscle group a day for 5 days with heavy weight works for me. I rest about a minute between sets. Sometimes 2. That is the hardest part of doing the Max OT, more so if you are use to little rest between your sets now. Every body is different and what works for one may not work for another. After 6-8 weeks change up to a different workout and see how the body reacts.

Team Keine Ausreden = No Excuses
mein scheinehund ist daheim
48 yrs young
6'5" 270 Lbs

What's confusing to me is this: Many have said that a heavy weight/low rep routine is good for "cutting." But from what I can tell with you, you're doing more than just cutting...you're gaining muscle as well right?
 
Where does the fat burn come from for a max ot, 5 x 5, or some kind of variation?
 
Is it in the rest between sets? Or the addition of cardio?
 
Just don't get how something like this can achieve both.
 
The other lever I don't get is diet...would I take on a slight caloric surplus here to "kill two birds with one stone" and both gain muscle and lose fat? Or stay around maintenance?
 
KY

Im not a cardio nut, by no means. The longest I ran was when I locked myself out of the gym with my keys inside (at 3am) and went home (4 miles). Basically in my diet I run about 4000 calories. If I take in 4200 I'll bulk up. If I drop to 3800 I lose weight. Now when I'm doing Max OT I'm building strength (not muscle endurance) So with strength come size, more muscle size more calories to feed em, taking calories from my fat body, making me smaller. Yea, its slower. But I'm keeping my gains and dropping fat...not weight... losing weight makes me smaller, losing fat make me leaner at the same weight. I hope this makes sense, and I'm sure someone out there knows way more than I do and can pick it apart. Doing a Max OT type workout and doing cardio is no problem, there is a section in there to read on it. You just do cardio 12 hours after you lifted, not right after. Just start reading on nutrition to get your fat/protein/carb ratio's down. everyone is different. If I told you that you needed 70% protein, 25% carb, and 5% fat for your ratio of diet, it may not work for you...but I'm fine with it. So read read read. Then tweak you workout/diet to work for you. I hate the word diet everyone thinks its a weight loss word...diet is what I eat.
 
Hope this makes some sense, I'm at work and have been drinking coffee!!!
 
WD
 

Team Keine Ausreden = No Excuses
mein scheinehund ist daheim
48 yrs young
6'5" 270 Lbs

4000 calories. Wow.
 
Sounds like this routine does you right. You either bulk or cut depending on your calorie intake. I'd love to use this and stay around maintenance or just above it and build muscle while slowly burning fat away. If it takes time, fine. I don't want to waste away cuttting and eating 500 calories below maintenance.
 
Just reviewed max ot. Looks similar to 5 x 5. Favor compound movements, etc.
 
This will be a big change from german volume training that's for sure. I'm going from 8 x 8 with lower weight to 5 x 5. Lot of warm up sets recommended...jeesh.
 
I've tried one muscle group per day...didn't really work that well. With GVT I split and I liked how it worked out. I'm thinking of going:
 
* Day 1: Horizontal push pull (chest back)
* Day 2: Legs / abs
* Day 3: Vertical push pull (shoulders back)
* Day 4: Bis / tris / some more legs
 
Cardio seems to be the wildcard. I don't want to do too much, but I don't want to do too little...and when to do it. Max ot's reco of doing it 12 hours after is kinda not going to work...I just don't have time to work out again. I'm hoping there is another alternative. Was thinking high intenisty cardio for a short period of time post workout.
 
Anyways, thanks much.
 
KY
 

rippedchick


Whoa! You eat a lot of fat.

You can do both. It's called recomping and you're at the perfect body type to do that. Results come slower that they would if you took a strait shot in either direction but you kill two birds so to speak.

Have you ever thought of circuit training your lifts? You could work on building muscle and loose fat by cutting your rest times and turning your lift into cardio. It works really well for some people.

What exactly does recomping involve?

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." Friedrich Nietzsche

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted" John Lennon

*Bump*
 
Same question here..

Help?

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." Friedrich Nietzsche

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted" John Lennon

Sorry didn't see the question. Recomping usually involves eating at maintenance or above (CLEAN) while doing a combination of lifting and cardio. I've seen plenty of people do, done it myself (sans cardio) and had clients do it successfully. Training pretty much goes like this:

Ecto: Eat clean above maintenance and lift only
Meso: Eat at maintenance and a little cardio (could just be cutting rest times)
Endo: Eat at or a little below maintenance and do serious cardio (i.e. hiit, circuits)

I personally was on a bulking diet and only lifting went from 120 to 128 and 17%bf to 11%. I'm an ecto.

Add me on facebook!

rippedchick



I personally was on a bulking diet and only lifting went from 120 to 128 and 17%bf to 11%. I'm an ecto.

 
Im doing the same kinda deal myself now.  Its a cut-bulk :).  The reason it is working for me is because I didnt work my legs for a year due to a fractured ankle.  Now that Im hitting them hard (newbie gains) and doing a slow cut at the same time, Im not really dropping weight.  I'm staying around 200lbs but my BF% is definetly dropping, I see more veins and abs every week.  I love it! 

Ok makes sense thank you.

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." Friedrich Nietzsche

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted" John Lennon