Chest Flys

Anyone know a lot about chest flys here? They're supposed to be a isolation movement but obviously aren't, basically the bench press but in a arcing motion and allows more of a stretch on the outer part of the chest, having said that, has anyone done a mass building routine that focuses on Chest Flys for Chest?

I'm assuming Flys are the best exercise to widen the chest and connect it further with the anterior deltoid to get that wide chest look.

first off a chest fly is an isolation movement. and they are nothing like a bench press. a mass building routine that focuses on chest flys for chest is quite possibly the beginnings of the worst workout program in existence.

your workouts should be filled with heavy compounds such as flat bench press and weighted dips for your chest. not chest flys. especially if u are a beginner. IMO i wouldn't even attempt a fly until u can bench at least 1.5x your bw.

your going to get a lot more bang for your buck doing heavy bench presses with good form and explosive dips. lower the weight slowly and push it up as fast as u can. u want to engage the fast twitch muscle fibers and this will do it best.

you may see people like ronnie or jay doing flys but they are a little more advanced, but im not saying flys are completely useless, but if u are a beginner they are!!

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

Sorry, it appears theres some misunderstanding, I meant for shaping your chest. Obviously you're not going to be able to get the same size gains with Fly as you would for Press

Pretty much what he said,

Do yourself a favor and stick to the compounds for now. isolations are fine every now and then but add them in after you have more time under your belt and really have a good feel for your own body and its lagging parts.

even on the subject of lagging parts, dips/push ups will be much better for you then flyes in general.

edit:

Just saw your reply, there is no "shaping" try to delete that term from your brain in weight lifting. Your muscle shape is determined by genetics. You cant shape them to look differently.

You may be talking about the cut look, which is just a lower body fat % which shows the muscle better. But you need the muscle there to show with the low BF.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Ya, a muscle only gets bigger or smaller.  You can't shape them by doing different exercises.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

i always put em out the end of my chest routine , 2-3 light sets (not extremely light ) felt like it stretched an relaxed my pecs really , i away felt better leaving the gym after these than the chest days i didnt

maybe he means getting his whole chest out .... which in that case you need to do include and decline chest exercises as well.

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. - Frank Sinatra

Nm0ney34


Pretty much what he said,

Do yourself a favor and stick to the compounds for now. isolations are fine every now and then but add them in after you have more time under your belt and really have a good feel for your own body and its lagging parts.

even on the subject of lagging parts, dips/push ups will be much better for you then flyes in general.

edit:

Just saw your reply, there is no "shaping" try to delete that term from your brain in weight lifting. Your muscle shape is determined by genetics. You cant shape them to look differently.

You may be talking about the cut look, which is just a lower body fat % which shows the muscle better. But you need the muscle there to show with the low BF.

This always kills me when I see it, and I've seen it often on DBB.  If you can't shape or sculpt individual muscles, then why do BBers do it constantly, and why am I able to do it in my personal experience.  Is this just semantics?  When I do flyes or cable crossovers, the fibers near my sternum burn and get pumped, and I have better separation.  That's one example among many.  Your "potential" muscle shape may be determined by genetics, but I'm going to need more evidence before I believe you can't shape a muscle.  Just to be straignt, what's a muscle?  Is each pec one muscle or several?  Why is there talk of the clavicular head and that inclines make that head grow?  Sorry I'm confused!

Look at people like arnold, his arm shape is exactly the same when he is a teenager. Only times he looks different is when his bf lvls are different.

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Seos-Log-2008-m442008.aspx

SEOINAGE


Look at people like arnold, his arm shape is exactly the same when he is a teenager. Only times he looks different is when his bf lvls are different.

But don't you have to hit the same muscle from all different angles to stimulate all of the fibers to get to the genetically-defined shape?  You're not going to get a fully developed chest by limiting yourself to flat bench presses, are you?

look at a few pictures of bodybuilders. Ill use an easy example. Look and compare each individuals abdominal's.

Notice how some of them have perfect straight 6 packs, some might be a little off, some might be more crooked then the us banks. Others have full 8 packs, some have full 6 packs, some can only get full 4 packs...

and no matter what they do they just cant change the look of them because they are genetically built to look like that. They can gain and lose mass, and make them bigger/smaller perhaps giving the illusion of "shaping".

Its the same thing with any other body part. I can work on my chest for years and years, but I will never change the way the muscle genetically looks. I can add mass, and lose body fat to give it more appearance, but I cant just change it completely. 

The whole shaping and toning phenomenon is complete crap IMO. And bodybuilders are so advanced mass wise that they can do different things at different angles to recruit more fibers, and of course they have steroids helping with growth.

But don't you have to hit the same muscle from all different angles to stimulate all of the fibers to get to the genetically-defined shape?  You're not going to get a fully developed chest by limiting yourself to flat bench presses, are you?

Not necessarily, and this goes into other discussions we have had on this board and the common misconception that everybody and their brother should be doing every and all isolations, especially ones they see BB'ers  do.

I guarentee that if you do nothing but flat bench and OH press you will develop a good chest. But isolations are really there to bring up lagging spots and give extra work to weak area's or something you want to show extra work to...the problem is most people havent even reached the level where they really need to worry about isolations like that. It really depends on your goals as an individual, your lifting experience but when I say most people dont need to worry about isolations I really think its true. Again, not to say im totally against them.

You have all these pre conceived notions about weight lifting you get from pro BB'ers. You reference them all the time. But until you really get to a solid level of just compound work or you decide you want to jump on the steroid wagon, I really dont think you need to worry about isolations the way you do.

JMBS

Nm0ney34


Pretty much what he said,

Do yourself a favor and stick to the compounds for now. isolations are fine every now and then but add them in after you have more time under your belt and really have a good feel for your own body and its lagging parts.

even on the subject of lagging parts, dips/push ups will be much better for you then flyes in general.

edit:

Just saw your reply, there is no "shaping" try to delete that term from your brain in weight lifting. Your muscle shape is determined by genetics. You cant shape them to look differently.

You may be talking about the cut look, which is just a lower body fat % which shows the muscle better. But you need the muscle there to show with the low BF.

This always kills me when I see it, and I've seen it often on DBB.  If you can't shape or sculpt individual muscles, then why do BBers do it constantly, and why am I able to do it in my personal experience.  Is this just semantics?  When I do flyes or cable crossovers, the fibers near my sternum burn and get pumped, and I have better separation.  That's one example among many.  Your "potential" muscle shape may be determined by genetics, but I'm going to need more evidence before I believe you can't shape a muscle.  Just to be straignt, what's a muscle?  Is each pec one muscle or several?  Why is there talk of the clavicular head and that inclines make that head grow?  Sorry I'm confused!

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


look at a few pictures of bodybuilders. Ill use an easy example. Look and compare each individuals abdominal's.

Notice how some of them have perfect straight 6 packs, some might be a little off, some might be more crooked then the us banks. Others have full 8 packs, some have full 6 packs, some can only get full 4 packs...

and no matter what they do they just cant change the look of them because they are genetically built to look like that. They can gain and lose mass, and make them bigger/smaller perhaps giving the illusion of "shaping".

Its the same thing with any other body part. I can work on my chest for years and years, but I will never change the way the muscle genetically looks. I can add mass, and lose body fat to give it more appearance, but I cant just change it completely. 

The whole shaping and toning phenomenon is complete crap IMO. And bodybuilders are so advanced mass wise that they can do different things at different angles to recruit more fibers, and of course they have steroids helping with growth.

N$,
   I'm following you now.  Makes sense.  But don't you still want to use different exercises to hit all the fibers to develop the muscle to full genetic potential?  Exclusive flat bench presses aren't going to get you your genetically-defined best chest, are they?