** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amounts of casein...limit your intake!
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/10/2006 1:01:09 PM
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durandalinfinity
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very interesting I think my daily diet hits about close to 42g of cassein a day.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/10/2006 6:16:51 PM
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Avaric3
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muscle milk uses micellar casein too
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/11/2006 6:12:44 AM
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kane
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I just take 2 scoops of casein at night before bed and thats it, I should not be at risk should i?
Micell Edge is what I use
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(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/12/2006 3:06:28 AM
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Twin Peak
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This seems like another situation of overreacting to a barely relevant issue. As Dan said, these were pre infected rats.
Casien is commonly found in many food products and has been consumed for centuries.
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(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/12/2006 3:15:53 AM
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Lynx100
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quote:
This seems like another situation of overreacting to a barely relevant issue.
I agree
(in reply to Twin Peak)
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/12/2006 7:20:44 AM
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danmirage
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quote:
This seems like another situation of overreacting to a barely relevant issue.
I don't agree that this is barely relevant. Studies of the incidence in cultures of certain cancers rise with the intake of milk products, and understanding the cause and avoidance measures is important.
I don't think being dissmissive is a very sensible way to deal with these types of things we learn.
Thats just denial.
I DO NOT think this is something to panic about. Or OVER react about.
People should not throw casein away! It is a great source of protein.
These researchers found that it did in fact turn on tumor genes, but only at a certain level of casein intake...so, the way to look at this is to take it as cautionery...to be an informed athlete!
The same goes for soy and some other foods. In moderation they are fine...if you consume 25 or 50% of your diet from them there could be issues that you should be aware may arise.
One person on this board told me he takes 100 grams of casein 3 times a day. Obviously THIS is the peson this is strongly directed at. That is 33% of his daily diet.
A serving at bedtime or 2x a day is likely going to be far below the 10% of total calories from casein that they found to be the problem.
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(in reply to Lynx100)
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/12/2006 10:21:24 AM
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Buffwannabe
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Man i love muscle milk, i try to consume around 32-64 grams per day. I had no idea it would induce some sort of tumor in the liver.
I think its the same study with that artificial sweetner aspartame. On extremely high doses it caused cancer in rats, but then again:
WE ARE NOT RATS
Rat studies are a possible indication that this might happen in humans, but inorder to determine that, you need clinical experimentation and data collection over a substantial period of time to see that this can happen in humans. Also keep in mind that Humans are (x number) times bigger than rats. Our livers are gigantic, we pump far more blood, and our digestive system is freakin huge, which means we have a better capability of proper digestion and absorption of casien protien. Has there been any evidence that aspartame causes the same sort of cancer in rats in humans? I dont know about that yet, but probably not.
Consider the eskimos,...their diet is exclusively relied on raw fish and blubber yet they have virtually no indication of heart diseases or arteriolsclerosis (sp?!)
In america, we have access to all kinds of foods, yet we are the fatest nation in the world. You know what i think the real killer is? HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP. That should be considered a deadly chemical far more than aspartame or casien protien, or even marijuana for that matter, because they put that **** in everything.
So thanks for the information on casien protien causing cancer, but i am just not buying it, i consider it the same bullshit study that was conducted on aspartame causing cancer in rats. Its blown all out of proportion, to scare people, just show that these "scientists" are doing something important.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/12/2006 11:41:52 AM
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danmirage
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quote:
I don't see blends as falling into this category.
They do.
Micellar casein is the natural, undenatured form of casein found in milk. It is separated from milk by means of ultrafiltration, without the use of chemicals, which increases the amount of bioactive milk peptides that support immune function as well as enhance muscle growth.
As manufactured, Calcium Sodium Caseinate (Casein with calcium and Sodium Salt) is a modified protein extracted from pure farm milk.
quote:
In which case, he's getting protein from fatty sources I would guess (dairy, cheese) and I would agree that is way too much.
He uses a casein protein powder for this.
quote:
Man i love muscle milk, i try to consume around 32-64 grams per day. I had no idea it would induce some sort of tumor in the liver.
Like Marc says..this is not even close the observed upper limit for this recommendation.
That is just what this is...a recommendation.
Like the recommendation to consume less than 1/3 of dietary fat from saturated fat...
As for the rats BuffWB...suffice to say, they have worked out the differences and make reasonable assumptions from research on rats. Not always correct, but correct quite frequently.
As for the Eskimos..this is not a good example as FISH derived fats behave differently than cow/chicken/pig etc meats...and have a beneficial effect on those.
I think as far as the HFCS...you are close to the mark. If we remove HFCS from the food supply, and that may happen as the corn prices go up due to demand for alternative fuels, the problem will still remain.
HFCS is a part of the whole processed food industry that is part of the latter problem you refer to! Processed and denatured foods loaded with fast release sugars that hit the system and cause insulin instability...etc etc
< Message edited by danmirage -- 9/12/2006 11:43:21 AM >
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/12/2006 2:47:00 PM
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Buffwannabe
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What about the study on artificial sweetners like aspartame causing causing cancer in rats? Just because it happens in rats, doesnt necessarily mean it will happen in humans. Your casien tumor inducing story is the same **** as aspartame cancer inducing study on rats. Both of them, IMO IS TOTAL BULLSHIT. Which is the same kind of bullshit when the government in the old days use to say that smoking was good for you, which is the same kind of bullshit today where they say marijuana makes you do all sorts of outrageous sh*t, when in infact all it does is make you hungry and grab some cookie dough.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: ** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amo... - 9/12/2006 3:24:31 PM
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danmirage
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quote:
What about the study on artificial sweetners like aspartame causing causing cancer in rats? Just because it happens in rats, doesnt necessarily mean it will happen in humans.
That is true...the rats pose as a cationary notice.
quote:
Your casien tumor inducing story is the same **** as aspartame cancer inducing study on rats.
Not exactly...but I see your point. With casein he is simply saying if you eat it in excess it enables the mechanism of tumor growth. He has tested it for many years...obviously not wanting to test on humans..he did cross-cultural model studies and founf that increased consumtion correlated with increases of the type of cancer expectd.
quote:
Both of them, IMO IS TOTAL BULLSHIT.
You are entitled, right!
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Which is the same kind of bullshit when the government in the old days use to say that smoking was good for you
It was commercial interests that said that, not the government..at the time this country made its money on tobacco plantations...
quote:
which is the same kind of bullshit today where they say marijuana makes you do all sorts of outrageous sh*t, when in infact all it does is make you hungry and grab some cookie dough.
well, there are certainly pro and con to smoking marijuana. But I agree that demonizing it is simply stupid. Even though I am not a user and am against its recreational use.
I also agree that the supression of M and the science of its many benefts, while promoting bunk science and its false cons is criminal.
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(in reply to Buffwannabe)
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** Cautionary ** Warnings about using excessive amounts... - 
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