C R E A T I N E

If you take creatine it allows your muscles to hold more water, which makes you look bigger. Do you look bigger and bigger if you drink more, and more water?

Once your cells are volumized and holding water, drinking more will do nothing except bloat you.  And if you drink too much, there are negative consequences of doing that as well.

Short answer: No

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

Ok so if i'm loading with it. how much water should I be drinking per day? I want to look bigger, and get my cells volumized and holding water, no bloating.

I want to look better for my wedding in one month.

Kevin don't take this the wrong way but I've noticed you last few questions have all been directed towards supplements, if your goal is hypertrophy/strength and physique this section won't get your nearly as fat as going to the nutrition section gathering you up a diet that is suitable for your unique goals and then asking for a routine in the critique my training section, as far as water goes- For a non-lifter I would recommend a gallon per day.

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

creatine can make you look fatter as it gives a general puffyness to your muscles, but under clothes this should not be an issue.

Live Your Life...on your schedule 
Bodyweight Routines 
In as little as 4 minutes a day.
http://247fitness.bodybot.hop.clickbank.net

I'm not taking creatine then. I'm going to stick with my diet, and protein.

Not so fast.

There are more reasons than cell volumization to use creatine.  I'll get to that in a sec, but first, let's dispense with the hysteria over looking "fatter".  The body fat that everyone equates with a smooth, undefined look manifests under the skin, and covers muscle.  Hence, it is called subcutaneous fat.  In contrast, the water volumization that occurs with creatine manifests inside the muscle cells, and makes the muscle itself appear larger.  If you already have a low body fat percentage, increasing the amount of interstitial and intracellular water in your muscles is not going to make you look "fat".  For that, you would need to increase water retention beneath the skin, and your sodium intake is going to affect that a LOT faster than creatine will.

As I type this, I'm sporting a rediculous creatine volume with enough definition and vascularity that no one confuses it with fat, believe me.

Besides the volumizing effects (which, if you're really worried about, you can mitigate by using an estherized creatine supplement instead of monohydrate), creatine speeds recovery between workouts -and, if I may say so myself, even between sets within a workout.  Every time you work a muscle to exhaustion, besides wiping out its stored glycogen, you are depleting its phosphate stores (creatine).  Yes, you can get enough to replenish it from food, but this is one of the rare areas in bodybuilding where research has proven that more is better.

It sounds to me like you want to pack on an impressive amount of size in a short duration.  For my money, nothing (legal) does that better than creatine.  Will it pass for a long-term strategy?  Absolutely not.  But that shouldn't take it out of the short-term picture.  Blast an intense round of resistance training with creatine monohydrate to get in shape for the wedding, then get serious and build a longer-term approach.

I take a creatine monohydrate/dextrose punch mix and a protein shake both pre- and post-workout.  I've done it for probably a year now.  I've heard some people cycle off creatine and back on every few months.  Is that a good idea?  Also, I am bulking now.  What are the implications of creatine while cutting?  Keep taking it?  When I cut will some of the water in my muscles go away and my muscles shrink?  That would be demoralizing!  If I cycle off creatine for a while would I see my muscles shrink?  Thanks!

I've observed that during a cutting cycle, when you shift the emphasis to more aerobic workouts and lighter weights with higher reps, it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain the same amount of creatine/water volume that you see in a bulking phase.  Consequently you should expect to trade a little size for harder, denser muscle overall.  As for demoralizing, I guess that would depend on which condition you value more.

You've probably heard me say it before, but personally, I'm going for as much size as I can still convincingly pass off as muscle.  I don't care if my cells are full of sand -if it looks like a bicep, and not a doughey blob, my work is done.  For me, it's all about aesthetics.  I'm not getting into an octagon anytime soon, and I could care less about setting strength records.  I should think that kind of priority scheme should weight heavily in any competitive bodybuilder's rationale.

The thing is, what a lot of guys overlook when they admire the lean, muscular (what some would call "average") athletic build of an Abercrombie model, or the "Brad Pitt Look", is that these guys all use creatine in conjunction with their cutting diets to minimize the size lost to catabolism.  Unless you are trying to shred everything down to the level of seeing individual bundles of muscle fiber through paper thin skin, I see no reason to ever cycle off the stuff completely.

And by now, I think enough doubt has been cast on the efficacy of "loading" creatine to make it a suspect practice.  Barring cases of severe muscle-wasting disease, I've not heard any compelling evidence that loading phases are worth the hype.  I think that "err on the side of excess" advice was put out there to drive up sales of creatine when it first hit the mainstream.  Personally, I bust 4 to 5 grams a day, and I never cycle off it.

Veg >>. >

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

veggeep,
   Thanks!   I've heard when cutting you have to try to keep as much of your lifting routine as possible.  You mention high reps (and consequently lower weights?) to get that ripped/cut look.  I have read what may be the opposite:  You want to keep your body under "load":  meaning try not to lower the weights but cut out a set if necessary due to lower energy.  You want  your body to think it had better not catabolize muscle because the master controlling it has given notice that he wants to do heavy lifting.  Have you heard of this theory?  Perhaps a set of high wt/low reps followed by some sets of lower wt/high reps, best of both worlds?
    I think I also read (man I read a lot!) about the catabolic spiral some guys fall into when they go to lower weight/high reps to cut up.  Their bodies are so desperate for calories that they catabolize muscle and become weaker and the weights they train with keep getting lower and lower until they're wasted away.  Have you ever heard of that phenomenon?
    I have never "cut" in my life so it will be an interesting adventure!

JMBS


veggeep,
   Thanks!   I've heard when cutting you have to try to keep as much of your lifting routine as possible.  You mention high reps (and consequently lower weights?) to get that ripped/cut look.  I have read what may be the opposite:  You want to keep your body under "load":  meaning try not to lower the weights but cut out a set if necessary due to lower energy.  You want  your body to think it had better not catabolize muscle because the master controlling it has given notice that he wants to do heavy lifting.  Have you heard of this theory?  Perhaps a set of high wt/low reps followed by some sets of lower wt/high reps, best of both worlds?
    I think I also read (man I read a lot!) about the catabolic spiral some guys fall into when they go to lower weight/high reps to cut up.  Their bodies are so desperate for calories that they catabolize muscle and become weaker and the weights they train with keep getting lower and lower until they're wasted away.  Have you ever heard of that phenomenon?
    I have never "cut" in my life so it will be an interesting adventure!

That makes two of us, bro!   To be perfectly honest, I don't know how much less catabolism you would suffer if you followed that approach, but it sounds perfectly reasonable to me.  God knows I'm terrified of ramping up the aerobic work.  When I see a treadmill, or a pair of running shoes, I picture them grinning maniacally and slobbering, hissing, "BRING ME THOSE JUICY QUADS!!! I'M STARVING!!!"  The mere idea of giving up even an OUNCE of muscle to strip off the body fat is anathema to me.

Unfortunately, I have the feeling that just as a slight body fat increase is inevitable in an aggressive bulking phase, a little catabolism during a cut may likewise be unavoidable, even with a perfect intake of protein.  What's that they say about making omelettes?  But I'm with you on this one -ANYTHING to minimize the damage.

That's a big part of why I'm such a fan of Jillian Michaels' "Making the Cut/30-day shred" approach.  It's all circuit-training with strength and resistence moves, with very little focus on cardio/edurance.

veggeep,
   So on the Jillian program you keep doing weights hard but just drop the calories (presumably mostly fat and some carbs) down?  Is the resistance program fast paced or circuit to get the heart rate up?

Plus, keep in mind, when I say "higher" reps and "lighter" weight, I don't mean endless Jane Fonda-esque calisthenic moves with a pair of 5lb Heavy Hands.  I'm talking about dropping back to weight you can power through 10-15 reps max on a lift and hitting (as you suggested) perhaps one or two fewer sets.  However, instead of taking them in the mass-building pace of 1 all-out 6-8 rep set followed by 90 seconds of recovery, maybe blowing up a four or five-way circuit, where every exercise hits an opposing muscle group.

Like Bench Press, followed immediately by low cable rows, followed immediately by leg extensions, followed immediately by hamstring curls.  Rest, repeat.  That should be rediculously aerobic, yet still comprised entirely of strength and mass-building subcomponents.  About the only thing you couldn't do without inducing a full thermonuclear meltdown is fill out those circuits with more than one really big compound movement.

There was a video posted here a while back that just blew everyone's mind -a pair of dudes going head-to-head on the most insane circuit I've ever seen.  I don't remember the whole thing, but I recall it involved something like 15 cleans, jerks, and full overhead presses followed by wide grip pull-ups in the double digits.  I wanted to puke just watching it

JMBS


veggeep,
   So on the Jillian program you keep doing weights hard but just drop the calories (presumably mostly fat and some carbs) down?  Is the resistance program fast paced or circuit to get the heart rate up?

Haven't read that far into it yet   But judging by how she beats up her contestants on Biggest Loser, that would be my guess, LOL.

I agree that creatine has alot of other uses in the body, and you Veg need it more than others because of the lack of red meat in your diet, so I can see you love affair with supplementing with, it is all good.  But just an average person that is not training in such a way to deplete storage may not be the best person to supplement with such a product.  If you are training in an advanced stage, use the creatine, if you are just going to the gym for a month to knock off some pounds for a wedding or prom or something like that, leave the supplement store and clean up your diet instead.

Live Your Life...on your schedule 
Bodyweight Routines 
In as little as 4 minutes a day.
http://247fitness.bodybot.hop.clickbank.net

I have a doubt about taking creatine. Its is pretty hard to keep track of my diet coz of hapazard uni life, assignments and stuff. I DO manage to get 100 - 120 grams of protein a day (1.5 grams per kilo BW) almost everyday. But sometimes I miss out on meals and I end up having like 80 grams only. Do I still take in creatine on that day or just skip it till I get proper protein intake the next day on?

Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death and as sweet love - MR

You should take in creatine everyday.

Current Stack: HDROL,Celltech,Superpump 250, Glutamine,Beta alanine,Whey protein.

Veg,  I've been absent from this site for 6 months to a year.  It sounds like you've completely changed your goals from when I last saw???  I'd be interested in seeing the results, as I remember your old avatar pics from back then...