Bodybuilding without Whey

Its simply too expensive. Ive decided Im gonna have to ditch it to make ends meet. However, does one truly need it? Ive already established quite a few gains over my 3 years of pumping so Im just hoping to not lose anything that Ive gained. I understand future gains will come at a much slower pace, but as long as I stuff myself with eggs and tuna (cheap stuff) every two hours, I should be good, right?

As long as you get enough protein from food, you don't have to worry about whey.

Whole food is a thousand times better anyway, so if you can put away the protein on the plate, you are gold.

Perrynaytor

As long as you get enough protein from food, you don't have to worry about whey.  

Very true.  But from a financial perspective, whey is pretty damn cheap.  It all depends on how and where you eat, but often a 4oz serving of meat (~20-25g prot) will end up costing you more than a 30g serving of whey (~24g protein).

You could buy the 10lb bags of whey and go that way instead of the tubs. Or go to wal mart and sacrifice taste for price.

Heres this for an idea. The only bodybuilding foods I can permanently see myself affording permanently as a college student are eggs in bulk, spinach leaves, and chicken drumsticks (tuna is actually pretty expensive now, like 1.29 per little ass can). Now, what if i was to use egg whites after each post workout as my "fast" protein, then save the yolks later in the night for my "slow protein", and eat chicken and spinach variously throughout my day while supplementing with multis, fish oils, potassium, and calcium? I am on CKD, so things like oatmeal and pasta I always have sitting on my shelf and I only whip em out once a week. Good idea for a broke college student guys?

People think the more protein the more muscle - simply a myth.

You need as an athlete, 1.5-2g of protein every kg of bodyweight, you can easily get that through whole foods. Whey is optional.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Well, I thought whey was important for quick replenishment and recovery after a tough workout. Without it, the body would take MUCH longer to repair itself. And my BMI is 141. And I have trouble getting that much protein in.

On CKD you probably wouldn't wanna use whey much anyway.  But for post- and pre-workout... like I said, whey is cheap.  A 10 lb bag of ON whey (which should last you ages on CKD) is about 80 bucks (give or take).  That ends up being under 55 cents per serving.  7-10 egg whites is gonna be the equivalent amount of protein, which really won't end up being any cheaper and is a hell of a lot less convenient.  

Obviously it's up to you.  Do whatever you can make work.  But IMO you're just not gonna find a protein source that combines low price with quality and convenience like whey does.

You only need about half your bodyweight in protein, if you're eating enough calories to grow then you should easily get in that intake.

Extra protein can affect the usage of your carbohydrates, be deposited as fat, and be hard on your kidneys. It's not needed.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I thought it was 1gram of protein per gram of bodyweight. Man, then Ive been going over and thats probably why my belly fat is still stubborn after losing everywhere else.

That's the usual guideline. But that's more towards competitive bodybuilders that are on anabolics, they perform much more sets than an average individual, making their demand for repair much more significant.

According to the ACE manual - 1.5-1.8g of protein for every kg of bodyweight. I've put on 80lbs with a minor bodyfat change since training and haven't consumed more than 120g of protein per day.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP

 I've put on 80lbs with a minor bodyfat change since training and haven't consumed more than 120g of protein per day.

But didn't your BF raise over 20%?  From the pics I saw, it looked like a moderate to high BF increase.  No offense, I know after you cut the progress will really show.  But I'm just wondering how much of that 80 lbs was really LMM.  

I'm around 20% right now, I started at a moderately high bodyfat. My bodyfat started around 14%.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

i havent used whey in almost a year now, just dont have the money for it, and i dont even miss it!

food is your best bet
eggs are your friends

update! 8/3/09

maxes and goals
bench - need to remax
goal bench - 405

squat - need to remax
goal squat - 500

deadlift - need to remax
goal deadlift - 500
weight -174.8 8%bf 

^ Arnold there is the evidence you need.

''If one is after quick results one never learns an art.''

Erich Fromm

Whey isnt really needed on the ckd except I would try to definatly take it once a week right after the depletion workout at the beginning of the carb load.  Nothing else will be as good of a substitute. 

I dont think I understand anyway...whey protein is cheaper than most protein sources, kind of annoys me that I dont use it much anymore.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

I just love the taste of it.  I look forward to my shake every morning.  Damn, that s*** is good.

But ya, if you can get sufficient protien from food alone, then there's really no need to supplement it.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

brihead301


I just love the taste of it.  I look forward to my shake every morning.  Damn, that s*** is good.

But ya, if you can get sufficient protien from food alone, then there's really no need to supplement it.

haha in milk, aahhhh so good.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

why wouldnt you have whey on a CKD? you need post workout protein like any other diet, dont you? the only thing that is missing is the insulin which will come during hte refeed, but dont you still need quick protein replenishment? whey confuses me to no end. many on this board say that whey is just like any other protein, and can be taken at any time of the day. which is it? is a scoop of whey gonna register in my body the same way 2 eggs will, or a piece of chicken if i were to take it at, oh lets say, 4pm on an off day?

Sufficient protein can easily be gotten with out supplements.

Red PittBull's Log.

dtes

you need post workout protein like any other diet, dont you?  

Need?  I don't really think so, it should just help start recovery a bit faster, right?  Anyway, like people have said, you definitely don't have to have whey, especially on CKD.  But not enough people have pointed out that whey is a very cheap source of protein.  So if it's a financial issue... you know.. if you can fit enough food into your budget, I don't see how you couldn't squeeze in some PWO whey as well.

Whey is cheap and it tastes good, I'm not against it - I'm actually very much for it. Hopefully I didn't come off and saying "f*** whey" or anything.

Whey is good for you, has good protein, tastes good, and is quickly digested. As RS pointed out, it's good post-workout and it's good upon wakening.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Yeah, but on the ckd the idea is that your beating it up during the week and recovering on the carb up.  I still take whey post workout on the ckd but I dont think its that important.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Yea, beating up in the sense that you're not affecting insulin levels. Its not like you're starving yourself and malnourshing your body for six days. Its just six days of no blood sugar elevation/drops, why wouldnt whey PROTEIN be necessary if thats all you're eating besides fat in hopes to sustain muscle?
 
I appreciate all the responses, but can somebody answer the question? Is drinking whey at 4pm on an off day as effective as eating 2 eggs or a piece of chicken? I taught to think its ONLY effective PWO or early morning, as opposed to just "better". If you guys are telling me whey is okay any other time of the day, I'll just invest my money in spinach, mixed veggies, and a 20lb bag of whey. I thought variable protein was necessary, but I guess not if its basically all the same.

dtes
Is drinking whey at 4pm on an off day as effective as eating 2 eggs or a piece of chicken?  

Drinking whey protein powder is not the same as eating whole food.  Absorption comes much more quickly, which makes it ideal for PWO.  On the other hand, whole food is ideal for your normal meals.  The thermic effect of whole food is much higher than that of whey, and whole food will provide amino acids for a much longer duration.


On CKD, whey is especially not ideal (aside from PWO) because you want most of your calories to come from fat.  If you overconsume protein, it can be broken down into glucose, preventing you from achieving ketosis.  Chances are pretty good that you're already getting sufficient amounts of protein from all the meat and (whole) eggs that you're probably eating, but that's something that you'll want to figure out for yourself.

And if im 145lbs or so, how much protein is too much? I basically eat 6 eggs a day or so, a can of tuna, with spinach and cheese variously throughout the day. I fry the eggs in canola oil which gives me fat, and eat a lot of cheese during the day. When I have PB, I eat that in small portions here and there throughout the day as well.

Personally, I would still go less than your bodyweight.

If you're 200lbs and bulking, then you'd need a recommended 1.5-2g of protein for every kg of bodyweight. So the formula is: LBS / 2.2 = 91 * 1.8 = 164g of protein per day, during a cut I'd slightly increase so amino acids aren't taken from muscle tissue - but I still wouldn't go more than 200g.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Fry the eggs in butter, and add mayo with them. That's a ton of fat. If you are going to use whey, take a shot of olive oil with it for protein and fats. Otherwise, in a keto diet you are primarily eating only meat, and meat is a primary protein source, so whey is a waste in some sense.

In keto though, eggs are amazing. 70 calories, 4.5g fat and 6g of protein. Eat a dozen and look at where you are at that point. 72g of protein. That's like half of your requirement daily. If you love eggs like most of us, I would just eat the hell out of them.

great question..great replies.thanks

DONT BLAME THE PITBULL TRAIN THE PITBULL .BAN THE DEED NOT THE BREED.... OH YES MY GRAMR AND SPELNG SUCK AZZ...I KNOW.. THERE ARE NO BAD DOGS.JUST BAD OWNERS...

I wonder what an all egg diet would go

12 * 6 = 72g of protein

12 * 4.5 = 54g of fat (you'd need more)

70 & 12 = 840 calories

This is probably a newbie question, I know there is LDL (low density lipoprotein AKA "bad" cholesterol) and HDL (high density lipoprotein AKA "good" cholesterol) . But would the cholesterol that eggs contain relate to the HDL or LDL?

I might try a cutting diet with 12 eggs per day and

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant