Beware the Smith Macine

THe Smith machine (and partly my lack of knowledge) is to blame for a shoulder injury. Got rotator cuff damage and the stabiliser muscles in my shoulder were damaged.
 
Reasons, When i went to the gym, i didnt have a spotter, so rather than bench with a free weight barbell, i used the smith machine. as i progressesed, the weights got heavier, so my muscles got stronger. BUT, as the smith machine is on a fixed plane, my stabilser muscles in my shouder etc were not being worked and therefore did not get stronger.
So one day last week i decided to use free weights rather than the smith, i used weight lower than wat id use on the smith, but obviously, even that was far too much for my underused and underdeveloped stabiliser muscles. as i benched, the weight shook, swayed etc. i thought nothing of it.
later wen i picked up the kettle at home, got major pain in shoulder. WEnt o my physio and need electro shock therapy and have stabiliser and shoulder exercises to do, cant do upper body weights til it heals.
 
Thought id share my experience and hopefully sum1 else will avoid my mistakes :)

After a few months: 

Weight: 177lbs

6 reps 
Deadlift: 300lbs
Squat: 240lbs
Bench: on hold. Rotator cuff injury 

Smith machines suck.  Sorry this had to happen to you, but now you know free weights are the way to go!

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

Yeah man those things are terrible, the unnatural movement pattern can have detrimental effects on the joints, your joints weren't designed to move that way they were designed to move in the sagital, transverse and frontal plane. Strengthening your chest and leaving your stabilizers weak will only get you strong in a smith machine anyway, your stabilizers should be stabilizing the weight, not some machine.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Aye, that's why you should use dumbbells if you want to go heavy without a spotter, that's what I do - if you get in trouble it's an easy drop and you're working those stabalisers more with dumbbells anyways.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

Thanks for the heads-up about the smith machine pitfall.  I am on a program which includes smith back squats, hack squats, and decline presses.  I'll make sure to warm up with barbell or dumbells to give those stabilizers some attention.  Do you think that will protect me from injury?  Again, thanks!  Hope you get better soon.  Not being able to train must be a killer!  :(

JMBS


Thanks for the heads-up about the smith machine pitfall.  I am on a program which includes smith back squats, hack squats, and decline presses.  I'll make sure to warm up with barbell or dumbells to give those stabilizers some attention.  Do you think that will protect me from injury?  Again, thanks!  Hope you get better soon.  Not being able to train must be a killer!  :(

Do them in a power rack, not only warm up with conventional barbells but use them too. The smith machine gives you a fixed range of motion, a movement pattern that you won't use in everyday life nor when lifting conventional weights. Machines have their place, don't get me wrong, especially if you're coming back from an injury - I prefer using isolations on machines (like machine fly's) but when you're doing your compound movements, then you definitely need to be taking advantage of all the muscles capable of being overloaded. Getting strong in a smith machine you'll stay strong in one, when you return from the smith machine and grab a barbell your stabilizers won't be capable of stabilizing the workload.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP,
   Got it, but:  Isn't the smith good for something?  I won't be trying to lift the same weight w/free moving barbell on a power rack as I'll use on a smith machine.  I have found that with my long legs either my knees are in front of my toes or my torso is bent over such that my lower back comes into play too much.  I suppose I could switch to front squats.  When I do barbell hack squats, my butt is in the way.  Perhaps I'm doing them wrong.  I don't have problems doing decline presses on a power rack but assumed I could go heavier on the smith w/o so much worry about balancing.  I assumed the point of the smith is you could add weight and pack on mass and maintain the stabilizers w/less mass on the power rack w/less weight.  Is that right thinking or would you advise to just avoid the smith machine like the plague?  Thanks for your input!
JMBS

In comparison to free weights, I see no benefit of a smith machine. Unless you would not want your strength to carry over into the real world, want weak stabilizers and want a weightless bar. Use your free weights.

When you see a smith machine, pretend it's the anti-Christ and wants your soul, that's what I do. People think I'm weird because when I see them I run and scream (just kidding). But on the contrary, stick to your free weights, I like isolation movements on machines, but compounds it's all in the free weights. If you insist on using machines though (just as long it's not a smith machine) just do them after your free weights.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Thanks!  I'll rework my routine and use the power rack instead.  I want to try dumbbell hack squats because my form is crappy w/the barbell.  Any advice there or can guys w/long legs just not do Bbell hacks properly?  Thx!

Post your routine, we'll critique as necessary.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

JMBS


Thanks!  I'll rework my routine and use the power rack instead.  I want to try dumbbell hack squats because my form is crappy w/the barbell.  Any advice there or can guys w/long legs just not do Bbell hacks properly?  Thx!

Do it with barbell. You just have to really focus on the proper form. Head up, back straight and when you get the bar almost touching your hams you need to thrust forward with your hips. You can find tutorials on youtube.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

Thanks guys!  Watched a youtube on it.  Will try to do it right next time.
I'll post my routine in the Critique My Routine forum or whatever it is.
In short, I've just started a 4-day split that's in Robert Kennedy's Encyopedia of Bodybuilding.
Day 1 Back, Hams, Calves
Day 2 Shoulders, Triceps, Abs
Day 3 Quads/Glutes, Calves
Day 4 Chest, Biceps, Abs

All sets to failure.  Lovin' it so far!

This routine is Part 2 of 3.  Part  1 was a mass-building routine.  Part 2 is for strength.
Part 3 will be a five day split that focuses each day on one major muscle group.

I'm attending my first competition as a spectator in a little over a week.  Want to see what it's all about and whether I think I have a realistic shot.  I'm 45 so will compete in Masters and Novice.

All sets to failure? There's a problem already, the goal is to complete the lifts, not fail with the lifts. Training to failure is a generally bad idea.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

"Failure" meaning prescribed reps for each set in good form.  If form suffers by last rep, I reduce the weight next time.  If I can get an additional good form rep out, I increase the weight the next time.  For the last exercise for each body part, he has you go beyond failure by using an "advanced" technique such as cheat reps, partial reps, or drop sets.  All w/o compromising safety of course.  Does that clear up "failure" or do you still advise against?  Thanks!

I still advise against. Training to failure is not needed. All you need is to overload the muscle, failing is your nervous system just telling you to slow down, it has nothing to do with building muscle.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Got it!  Thanks!  Do you consider pumping and burning to be productive?  I did calves today on the leg press sled and held the last rep for a 10-second burn.  This is "isometric" training, right?  Are pumping, burning, and squeezing at the top of my reps good things to do? 

Regarding the routine I'm using, the thing of it is, it's working!  I don't want to be an egomaniacal jerk, but the looks and comments I get, especially lately, tell me I'm doing something right.  ;)  I'm the guy in the gym doing weird exercises (in other words something other that bench presses!) and working these things called the legs, which few others do.  Lots of guys seemingly having bench press contests.
I'm probably one of the guys who has the lowest max press.  The most I've benched is 160 I think.  Pitiful, right!  Any ideas why?  I do much better on pulling than pushing exercises for some reason.

I do think I was overtraining for a while.  I've tried to learn my lesson there.  Trying to bulk up and then cut down to possibly compete next Spring/Summer.  I'm taking a "gainer" to try to help out, since I have a very high metabolism.  Have gone from 175 to 195 over the last year probably.  I'm 6'1".  I think about 17% body fat.

Thanks again!  Sorry for rambling.
 
 

JMBS
Got it!  Thanks!  Do you consider pumping and burning to be productive?  I did calves today on the leg press sled and held the last rep for a 10-second burn.  This is "isometric" training, right?  Are pumping, burning, and squeezing at the top of my reps good things to do? 

Training for a pump is fine, the pump is only blood being pumped into the muscle faster than it leaves the muscle. Isometrics is not pumps, isometric is part of the three contractions the muscle makes (isometric, concentric, eccentric)... isometric is pushing against an immovable force, like pushing against the wall- Another example is using pull-ups.

Coming up on the pull-ups, that is the concentric contraction, the positive part of the range of motion.

At the top, the pause, is the isometric contraction.

Coming down on the pull-up, that is the eccentric contraction, the negative part of the range of motion.

Regarding the routine I'm using, the thing of it is, it's working!  I don't want to be an egomaniacal jerk, but the looks and comments I get, especially lately, tell me I'm doing something right.  ;)  I'm the guy in the gym doing weird exercises (in other words something other that bench presses!) and working these things called the legs, which few others do.  Lots of guys seemingly having bench press contests.
I'm probably one of the guys who has the lowest max press.  The most I've benched is 160 I think.  Pitiful, right!  Any ideas why?  I do much better on pulling than pushing exercises for some reason.

Every routine will work, as long as you're progressing each workout in reps, sets, tempo, rest between sets or weight and you're in a calorie surplus. Some things just make more sense than others.

I do think I was overtraining for a while.  I've tried to learn my lesson there.  Trying to bulk up and then cut down to possibly compete next Spring/Summer.  I'm taking a "gainer" to try to help out, since I have a very high metabolism.  Have gone from 175 to 195 over the last year probably.  I'm 6'1".  I think about 17% body fat.

You're not overtraining, that means fatigue of the nervous system and it's probably something you'll never have to worry about.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Thanks man!  You're like an encyclopedia yourself!  Priceless!
My next step is to get some constructive criticism on my physique and what I need to do (if possible) to be competitive next season in the Masters over 45 and Novice classes.
Do I need to post anything other than pictures of me to do that?  Tape measurements?  Nutrition?  Etc.
Thanks again!

I'm hoping a lot of my questions will be answered on the 27th when I attend a competition.  The guy running it said he might have a few minutes to look at me and tell me what I need to work on.  Really nice guy!
 
Thanks again MVP!

If hypertrophy is your goal, the most important thing is posting your nutrition, if your nutrition is in the surplus and from the right foods you'll gain mass with ANY routine. Everything works, some just more than others for different people.

Posting pics you'll get a good critique and areas you need to work on more than others, just post those and we'll help ya out.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


If hypertrophy is your goal, the most important thing is posting your nutrition, if your nutrition is in the surplus and from the right foods you'll gain mass with ANY routine. Everything works, some just more than others for different people.

Posting pics you'll get a good critique and areas you need to work on more than others, just post those and we'll help ya out.

This. Listen to MVP, he really knows what he is talking about.
 
Also if your not gaining weight eat more, it doesn't matter how clean your diet is, if you don't eat enough calories you won't get bigger. But with that said don't become obese, and try to keep a fairly clean diet.

Goals by end of 2009:
Bench 205
Squat 255 ATG
Squat Clean 185

"There is no elevator to success, you must take the stairs."