Begining Supplements

I'm 16.  I was thinking about taking the ON 100% Gold standard whey protein and a multivitamin.  Am I old enough or should I wait until I am 18 or so? 

ORIGINAL: Beginner_Lifter

I'm 16.  I was thinking about taking the ON 100% Gold standard whey protein and a multivitamin.  Am I old enough or should I wait until I am 18 or so? 

 
that's perfectly fine.
 
it only says wait till 18 because that's when they say you're done developing i guess. they just want to play it safe.
 
but you should be perfectly fine with those two.

^ Thanks. 

no prob
 
when you get older, look into some glutamine, creatine, and some fish oil

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: RedJeep

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: Beginner_Lifter

I was wondering what type of supplements I should take?  I have been told that whey protein is a must.  Also, fish oil has been recommended.  Should I take both or are there better things to take? 

I would suggest to start with whey protein(something that tastes good in milk), fish oil and possibly creatine after some time.

Using whey protein in non-fat milk postworkout will be superior to just using whey in water in the area of lean body mass gains.

unless you were looking for quicker digestion PWO, then you would just want to use water.

quicker digestion does not produce better gains in a post workout setting. I have a study that supports whey+casein(milk 80%) is better than just whey, I can post it if you would like. If one is concerned with quick absorbtion then  I would go with free from EAA's, since NEAA' are not needed for protein synthesis.

well....uh.....yeah.

1 + 1 > 1............

wow what a complex rebuttal, I like how you have relevent information with some math. Let's use your logic
whey+ casein = 1 + 1
whey+glutamine+ bcaa's = 1+1+1
but  whey+casein(1+1)>whey+glutamine+ bcaa's(1+1+1).

Care to actually explain why this happened? Could it be because of different amino acid profiles, anabolic, anti-catabolic fuctions and different rates of digestion?
Next time actually have some literature to support your statements, instead of stupidity.

If you actually read the abstract you would have noticed 5 grams of free from glutamine did nothing to preserve or produce any LBM, yet you recommend it. L-glutamine(free form) does not produce any muscle sparing effects on a normal healthy individual when having 5-6 meals a day. The studies that support l-glutamine use hospital patients.

l-glutamine is however useful in helping the PH levels in humans and it supports the immune system in large amounts 20+grams a  day.

ORIGINAL: Beginner_Lifter

I'm 16.  I was thinking about taking the ON 100% Gold standard whey protein and a multivitamin.  Am I old enough or should I wait until I am 18 or so? 

Yes you are old enough, I would use whey after your workout with non-fat milk and have a granola bar(nature valleys) with it. Multivitamin is fine as well, make sure to consume it with your whole-food meals.

The only reason they have 18 on the label is for legal reasons in regards to supplements. The only products I would stay away at your age is, PH and steriods....extremely negative towards anybody that age.

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: RedJeep

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: Beginner_Lifter

I was wondering what type of supplements I should take?  I have been told that whey protein is a must.  Also, fish oil has been recommended.  Should I take both or are there better things to take? 

I would suggest to start with whey protein(something that tastes good in milk), fish oil and possibly creatine after some time.

Using whey protein in non-fat milk postworkout will be superior to just using whey in water in the area of lean body mass gains.

unless you were looking for quicker digestion PWO, then you would just want to use water.

quicker digestion does not produce better gains in a post workout setting. I have a study that supports whey+casein(milk 80%) is better than just whey, I can post it if you would like. If one is concerned with quick absorbtion then  I would go with free from EAA's, since NEAA' are not needed for protein synthesis.

well....uh.....yeah.

1 + 1 > 1............

wow what a complex rebuttal, I like how you have relevent information with some math. Let's use your logic
whey+ casein = 1 + 1
whey+glutamine+ bcaa's = 1+1+1
but  whey+casein(1+1)>whey+glutamine+ bcaa's(1+1+1).

Care to actually explain why this happened? Could it be because of different amino acid profiles, anabolic, anti-catabolic fuctions and different rates of digestion?
Next time actually have some literature to support your statements, instead of stupidity.

If you actually read the abstract you would have noticed 5 grams of free from glutamine did nothing to preserve or produce any LBM, yet you recommend it. L-glutamine(free form) does not produce any muscle sparing effects on a normal healthy individual when having 5-6 meals a day. The studies that support l-glutamine use hospital patients.

l-glutamine is however useful in helping the PH levels in humans and it supports the immune system in large amounts 20+grams a  day.

 
i thought you'd never ask
 
you said whey + casein was better than just whey
 
so by your definition, whey = 1+1+1, and casein = 1.
 
so, by your definition, whey (1+1+1) + casein (1) = 4
 
and incase you can't count......whey (1+1+1) = 3
 
last time i looked at a number line, 4 was alittle bit higher than 3.
 
 

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: Beginner_Lifter

I'm 16.  I was thinking about taking the ON 100% Gold standard whey protein and a multivitamin.  Am I old enough or should I wait until I am 18 or so? 

Yes you are old enough, I would use whey after your workout with non-fat milk and have a granola bar(nature valleys) with it. Multivitamin is fine as well, make sure to consume it with your whole-food meals.

The only reason they have 18 on the label is for legal reasons in regards to supplements. The only products I would stay away at your age is, PH and steriods....extremely negative towards anybody that age.

 
you could've left the bolded part out. sound advice.......listen to that guy
 
but there isn't ANYTHING that steroids can do that food can't.
 
this is just some advice about steroids.
we are all under a "genetic ceiling" that we can not get past.  there is only a certain physique we can reach/obtain.  think of a bodybuilders path to the ceiling like a ladder.  you climb the ladder until you get to the top of the ceiling (your genetic limits) and you can't really do much more.  the dangers of steroids are that when you get off of them, you will fall off of the ladder all the way back to the first peg.  but when you do it properly and eat right and everything, you can stay at the top of the ladder and paint the whole ceiling (mold your genetic limits to be as perfect as possible)
 
so to make a long story short-------> steroids aren't worth it

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: RedJeep

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: Beginner_Lifter

I was wondering what type of supplements I should take?  I have been told that whey protein is a must.  Also, fish oil has been recommended.  Should I take both or are there better things to take? 

I would suggest to start with whey protein(something that tastes good in milk), fish oil and possibly creatine after some time.

Using whey protein in non-fat milk postworkout will be superior to just using whey in water in the area of lean body mass gains.

unless you were looking for quicker digestion PWO, then you would just want to use water.

quicker digestion does not produce better gains in a post workout setting. I have a study that supports whey+casein(milk 80%) is better than just whey, I can post it if you would like. If one is concerned with quick absorbtion then  I would go with free from EAA's, since NEAA' are not needed for protein synthesis.

well....uh.....yeah.

1 + 1 > 1............

wow what a complex rebuttal, I like how you have relevent information with some math. Let's use your logic
whey+ casein = 1 + 1
whey+glutamine+ bcaa's = 1+1+1
but  whey+casein(1+1)>whey+glutamine+ bcaa's(1+1+1).

Care to actually explain why this happened? Could it be because of different amino acid profiles, anabolic, anti-catabolic fuctions and different rates of digestion?
Next time actually have some literature to support your statements, instead of stupidity.

If you actually read the abstract you would have noticed 5 grams of free from glutamine did nothing to preserve or produce any LBM, yet you recommend it. L-glutamine(free form) does not produce any muscle sparing effects on a normal healthy individual when having 5-6 meals a day. The studies that support l-glutamine use hospital patients.

l-glutamine is however useful in helping the PH levels in humans and it supports the immune system in large amounts 20+grams a  day.

i thought you'd never ask

you said whey + casein was better than just whey

so by your definition, whey = 1+1+1, and casein = 1.

so, by your definition, whey (1+1+1) + casein (1) = 4

and incase you can't count......whey (1+1+1) = 3

last time i looked at a number line, 4 was alittle bit higher than 3.

I did not use simplistic numbers to represent ingredients because this issue is much more complex, yet you fail to see this. You still haven't explained the functions of each, why? I will answer it for you, because you don't know.

You still did not answer why you recommend glutamine, even though it's virtually worthless in LBM gains or the preservation of them.

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: Beginner_Lifter

I'm 16.  I was thinking about taking the ON 100% Gold standard whey protein and a multivitamin.  Am I old enough or should I wait until I am 18 or so? 

Yes you are old enough, I would use whey after your workout with non-fat milk and have a granola bar(nature valleys) with it. Multivitamin is fine as well, make sure to consume it with your whole-food meals.

The only reason they have 18 on the label is for legal reasons in regards to supplements. The only products I would stay away at your age is, PH and steriods....extremely negative towards anybody that age.

you could've left the bolded part out. sound advice.......listen to that guy

but there isn't ANYTHING that steroids can do that food can't.

this is just some advice about steroids.
we are all under a "genetic ceiling" that we can not get past.  there is only a certain physique we can reach/obtain.  think of a bodybuilders path to the ceiling like a ladder.  you climb the ladder until you get to the top of the ceiling (your genetic limits) and you can't really do much more.  the dangers of steroids are that when you get off of them, you will fall off of the ladder all the way back to the first peg.  but when you do it properly and eat right and everything, you can stay at the top of the ladder and paint the whole ceiling (mold your genetic limits to be as perfect as possible)

so to make a long story short-------> steroids aren't worth it

I do not advocate the use of steriods but no matter how many times you tell individuals not to use them, people will keep using them.

ORIGINAL: defiant


You still did not answer why you recommend glutamine, even though it's virtually worthless in LBM gains or the preservation of them.

 
sorry, i honestly didn't even read that part of your post; it got really boring after the first few words
 
glutamine is one of the most (if not the most) abundant amino acid in muscles that helps with a number of things i.e. - protein synthesis, keeps muscle from breaking down, and increases recovery time. 
 
sometimes your body doesn't have enough glutamine, and sometimes it's when your body needs it most.  taking the glutamine will ensure that your body has it at all times especially when it needs it.  so, you are wrong in saying it is worthless.  sure, it's worthless for people who just don't care if they gain or lose, and only care if they get in and out of the gym.  but someone who follows a strict diet, with say....alot of protein, then the glutamine does many neccessary things.

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: defiant


You still did not answer why you recommend glutamine, even though it's virtually worthless in LBM gains or the preservation of them.

sorry, i honestly didn't even read that part of your post; it got really boring after the first few words

glutamine is one of the most (if not the most) abundant amino acid in muscles that helps with a number of things i.e. - protein synthesis, keeps muscle from breaking down, and increases recovery time. 

sometimes your body doesn't have enough glutamine, and sometimes it's when your body needs it most.  taking the glutamine will ensure that your body has it at all times especially when it needs it.  so, you are wrong in saying it is worthless.  sure, it's worthless for people who just don't care if they gain or lose, and only care if they get in and out of the gym.  but someone who follows a strict diet, with say....alot of protein, then the glutamine does many neccessary things.

my post is boring because the lack of knowledge is showing on your part.

free form l-glutamine is not needed, a person who consumes 1 gram per pound of protein is getting enough glutamine. If someone is concerned with protein synthesis then l-leucine(free form) would be advantageous since it's the trigger.

Here is free form l-glutamine and how worthless it is in general. L-leucine(free form) is a much better option and cheaper.

1: Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2006 Oct;31(5):518-29.

Addition of glutamine to essential amino acids and carbohydrate does not enhance anabolism in young human males following exercise.

Wilkinson SB, Kim PL, Armstrong D, Phillips SM.

Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON L8S 4K1, Canada.

Quote: We examined the effect of a post-exercise oral carbohydrate (CHO, 1 g.kg(-1).h(-1)) and essential amino acid (EAA, 9.25 g) solution containing glutamine (0.3 g/kg BW; GLN trial) versus an isoenergetic CHO-EAA solution without glutamine (control, CON trial) on muscle glycogen resynthesis and whole-body protein turnover following 90 min of cycling at 65% VO2 peak. Over the course of 3 h of recovery, muscle biopsies were taken to measure glycogen resynthesis and mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS), by incorporation of [ring-2H5] phenylalanine. Infusion of [1-13C] leucine was used to measure whole-body protein turnover. Exercise resulted in a significant decrease in muscle glycogen (p < 0.05) with similar declines in each trial. Glycogen resynthesis following 3 h of recovery indicated no difference in total accumulation or rate of repletion. Leucine oxidation increased 2.5 fold (p < 0.05) during exercise, returned to resting levels immediately post-exercise,and was again elevated at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05). Leucine flux, an index of whole-body protein breakdown rate, was reduced during exercise, but increased to resting levels immediately post-exercise, and was further increased at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05), but only during the CON trial. Exercise resulted in a marked suppression of whole-body protein synthesis (50% of rest; p < 0.05), which was restored post-exercise; however, the addition of glutamine did not affect whole-body protein synthesis post-exercise. The rate of MPS was not different between trials. The addition of glutamine to a CHO + EAA beverage had no effect on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis or muscle protein synthesis, but may suppress a rise in whole-body proteolysis during the later stages of recovery.

PMID: 17111006 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9.

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

Quote: The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

PMID: 11822473 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The Effects of High-Dose Glutamine Ingestion on Weightlifting Performance

JOSE ANTONIO1, 3, MICHAEL S. SANDERS1, DOUGLAS KALMAN2, DEREK WOODGATE1, and CHRIS STREET1

1. Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, 2. Peak Wellness, Greenwich, Connecticut 06830, 3. Address correspondence to Jose Antonio, Scientific Affairs Department, Nutricia, 6111 Broken Sound Parkway NW, Boca Raton, FL 33487

Quote: The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean ? SE: age, 21.5 ? 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 ? 2.8 kg−1) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g?kg−1) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.

Reference Data:Antonio, J., M.S. Sanders, D. Kalman, D. Woodgate, and C. Street. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance.

Keywords: amino acid, supplement, nutrition, protein

DOI: 10.1519/1533-4287(2002)016[0157:TEOHDG]2.0.CO;2

i'm not going to argue with you because this is pointless. i know that it works and it is necessary.
 
i'll keep doing what i do to look good like i do.......and you keep doing whatever you do to look like whatever you look like. hmmm. do you have a picture of yourself?

ORIGINAL: defiant

Here is free form l-glutamine and how worthless it is in general. L-leucine(free form) is a much better option and cheaper.

1: Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2006 Oct;31(5):518-29.

Addition of glutamine to essential amino acids and carbohydrate does not enhance anabolism in young human males following exercise.

Wilkinson SB, Kim PL, Armstrong D, Phillips SM.

Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON L8S 4K1, Canada.

Quote: We examined the effect of a post-exercise oral carbohydrate (CHO, 1 g.kg(-1).h(-1)) and essential amino acid (EAA, 9.25 g) solution containing glutamine (0.3 g/kg BW; GLN trial) versus an isoenergetic CHO-EAA solution without glutamine (control, CON trial) on muscle glycogen resynthesis and whole-body protein turnover following 90 min of cycling at 65% VO2 peak. Over the course of 3 h of recovery, muscle biopsies were taken to measure glycogen resynthesis and mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS), by incorporation of [ring-2H5] phenylalanine. Infusion of [1-13C] leucine was used to measure whole-body protein turnover. Exercise resulted in a significant decrease in muscle glycogen (p < 0.05) with similar declines in each trial. Glycogen resynthesis following 3 h of recovery indicated no difference in total accumulation or rate of repletion. Leucine oxidation increased 2.5 fold (p < 0.05) during exercise, returned to resting levels immediately post-exercise,and was again elevated at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05). Leucine flux, an index of whole-body protein breakdown rate, was reduced during exercise, but increased to resting levels immediately post-exercise, and was further increased at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05), but only during the CON trial. Exercise resulted in a marked suppression of whole-body protein synthesis (50% of rest; p < 0.05), which was restored post-exercise; however, the addition of glutamine did not affect whole-body protein synthesis post-exercise. The rate of MPS was not different between trials. The addition of glutamine to a CHO + EAA beverage had no effect on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis or muscle protein synthesis, but may suppress a rise in whole-body proteolysis during the later stages of recovery.

PMID: 17111006 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9.

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

Quote: The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

PMID: 11822473 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The Effects of High-Dose Glutamine Ingestion on Weightlifting Performance

JOSE ANTONIO1, 3, MICHAEL S. SANDERS1, DOUGLAS KALMAN2, DEREK WOODGATE1, and CHRIS STREET1

1. Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, 2. Peak Wellness, Greenwich, Connecticut 06830, 3. Address correspondence to Jose Antonio, Scientific Affairs Department, Nutricia, 6111 Broken Sound Parkway NW, Boca Raton, FL 33487

Quote: The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean ? SE: age, 21.5 ? 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 ? 2.8 kg−1) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g?kg−1) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.

Reference Data:Antonio, J., M.S. Sanders, D. Kalman, D. Woodgate, and C. Street. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance.

Keywords: amino acid, supplement, nutrition, protein

DOI: 10.1519/1533-4287(2002)016[0157:TEOHDG]2.0.CO;2

 
actually i'll tear you up on this real quick
 
look at the last article you posted. THEY USED GLUTAMINE AS A PREWORKOUT SUPPLEMENT LIKE YOU WOULD USE AN N.O. PRODUCT.  WHERE DID I CLAIM IT WOULD HIT YOU WITH CAFFEINE SO YOU COULD LIFT MORE WEIGHT IN THE GYM? EXACTLY, I DIDN'T.
 
the article you posted was your own downfall.  never did i claim that it made you stronger as a preworkout supp, or stronger in general.
 
like i stated in my post, protein synthesis, keeps muscle from breaking down, and increases recovery time, are the main purposes of glutamine.  now, try to find where i made any claim that it made you stronger?
 
you should actually read the article before you post it