BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents
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BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 2:26:17 PM
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danmirage
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BSNs Cell Mass Claims to contain
3000 MG of "CME3" or creatine ethly ester malate.
An independant lab tested Cel Mass for potency and this is what they found:
First let me say this -
CEE is simply Creatine Monohydrate bound to an Ethyl Ester.
In "CEM3" presumably there is also malic acid (malate).
In order for the body to use the Creatine, it would have to separate off the malic acid and ethyl esters. It is, as yet, uncertain what their fate is.
The lab reported that the
"Sample was found to contain 1,390 mg/serving of Creatine monohydrate."
Though they did not say how much Ethyl alcohol and malic acid were found...these are not the functional constituents anyway...we must assume that they make up the other 1,610 mg...
You should know, all the forms of Creatine are always reduced to Creatine before either forming phosphocreatine in muscle, free Creatine in extracellular material, or being broken down.
Note:
Creatine monohydrate is highly bioavailable and most research showing creatine's value are done with CM.
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 2:33:13 PM
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localoutoftowner
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A co-worker and I had this exact conversation. This is why I just go with regular Monohydrate.
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 4:34:09 PM
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Dipset
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what about Gaspari's SizeOn? do you know how much creatine is in that, Dan? because i really wanna try it with superpump 250, and i've heard a lot of good things about it. Thanks
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 4:43:45 PM
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odw777
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I was trying to look into the difference between cee and cem. And apperently cem has a malic acid and cee hydrchloric acid. Because the full name is creatine ethyl ester hcl for cee.
What I was interested whether cem is safer. I read that the malic acid prevents it from breaking down into creatinine. And I think we all know the safety concerns with cee. That's probobly why higher dosages of cem then cee are required.
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 5:45:56 PM
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danmirage
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All the forms of Creatine are always reduced to Creatine before forming either
A) phosphocreatine in muscle,
B) free Creatine in extracellular material, or
C) being broken down to creatinine.
Or D) being recycled.
There is no value in having a special form of creatine. Creatine Mono is highly bioavailable.
In CEE there is an ethyl ester or alcohol atached to the creatine Monohydrate...that ethyl ester has to be processed..
In CEM you take the CEE and add malic acid. That is a starch that also has to be removed before the CM can be used.
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 9:14:20 PM
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crayZkid
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...so you're saying stick to mono, right?
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 9:28:52 PM
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maxwaver
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this just makes me think how ignorant i am to the supplements i'm taking.
do not know enough about them.
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 9:41:41 PM
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psalms_soldier
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Thanks dan, I had heard these statesments before in another article but havnt been able to locate them since i heard it.
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/25/2007 10:51:00 PM
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deadlysuperstar
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Why does mono make me have terribly disgusting sides, but Cellmass doesn't?
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/26/2007 6:54:12 AM
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woodmeister
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Great post dan!
Personally, i only use a high grade Cr mono, i don't see any reason to use anything else. You're right in that the majority of scientifc research use monohydrate, in fact there is no scientifc study currently available that suggest that any of these 'designer creatine products' (CEM, CEE, pyruvate, gels etc etc) are any more effective than good old cheap monohydrate.
Its funny how people swear by these products, without actually understanding how cr works. But i suppose if it works for them, why not :)
wood.
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/26/2007 6:56:37 AM
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woodmeister
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Oh, i should also add that apart from anecdotal observstions there are no proven side effects from creatine monoydrate supplementation, apart from an increase in body mass, that is attributed to water retention. This could be deemed positive or negative depending on your goals.
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woodmeister
age: 24 as of 02/07
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/26/2007 7:34:38 AM
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LoneWolf
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I get the same thing as you deadly. I just cannot take creatine mono, but cellmass was great. (no sides+great gains)
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/26/2007 10:50:00 AM
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deadlysuperstar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
Perhaps one of the two reasons above... intolerance to dose or powders...or sensitivity to something?
Cool, well after I cycle off of Cellmass, I'm gonna try a lower dose of mono when I go back on it (the amount you said is in one dose of cellmass- 1.4g per serving). Hopefully I won't get any sides and that'll be huge savings for my bank account. I can make up the Glutamine AKG that's in Cellmass from another supp. Right now Cellmass costs me on average about $50+ month.
If I get sides, then I'll go back to good ol' Cellmass. If not, huge savings.
Thanks again for the help, Dan.
As for woodmeister, there are proven side effects of mono, they just haven't been published. I know because I get them. Within 48-72 hours of taking it, I get these HUGE, rock-solid lumps protruding from my body where female's ovaries would be. They are painless but it looks and feels disgusting. Also, I get night sweats so bad that I wake up in the middle of the night and have to towel dry my entire body, then change my sheet and blankets because they are sopping wet like someone poured a bucket of water on them. These sides disappear almost immediately within 48 hours of discontinuing usage.
I don't need a scientific study to prove to me that designer creatine works better, I go off of personal experience. It does for me. LoneWolf says gets he sides from mono too, so the data for the scientists falls below the radar it seems.
< Message edited by deadlysuperstar -- 3/26/2007 10:56:33 AM >
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(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/26/2007 12:19:58 PM
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danmirage
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In my read of the science, there are no CONSISTENT side effects.
There are all sorts of things that could be happening here and obviously there are people experiencing similar things.
I would love to do some clear research on why superstar, wolf, and others have the response that they do.
There is research discussing "non-responders" but, to my knowledge, not this.
Is it allergic reactions, does it have to do with high levels of Creatine breakdown and some metabolite from forming creatinine, is it low tolerance to CM (initially hydrophobic as a powder and so a clump of powder in the gut)...
Although it is not a high priority for researchers to find why it does not work because there does not appear to be any danger...I am still curious.
Last, I have to agree...if it works, why not :)
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/26/2007 12:54:07 PM
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jheft
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I just started loading creatine monohydrate (started last Wednesday actually). I'm really wondering how it could possibly be absorbed by my body when it doesn't even appear to be water soluble. Did somebody secretly replace my creatine with sand*? Also, is it true that citrus can reduce its effectiveness because of acidity? If that were the case, how would it last long in your stomach?
Also no effects of any kind good or bad to report, but I haven't been taking it long. I'm also a pretty big meatavore, so maybe I'm a low or non-responder. Also, I getting over a cold and I think dropping some retained water, so maybe that concealed any other new water weight...
Or Folgers Crystals?
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/26/2007 1:12:52 PM
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danmirage
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quote:
Also, is it true that citrus can reduce its effectiveness because of acidity?
Not to my knowledge.
If you journal your training, you notice changes in your recovery and training intensity. Thats all.
If you were on a loading dose, (~20g) then you should be done loading soon, right? Then just a maintenance dose.
Folgers you would notice! Now white sand...hmm...thats possible!
I don't pre-mix in water..I take water in my mouth and put the spoonful in my mouth and mix it there! Mmmmmmmm.
Unless you have one of those nifty mixer canisters with the screen that breaks up the clumps!
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My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: BSN Cell Mass - lab tests contents - 3/26/2007 1:49:24 PM
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jheft
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Shouldn't I gain a couple pounds of water and have a certain amount of swelling of my muscles? I mean, I'm not expecting to wake up looking like Lou Ferrigno, but people always mention that you'll notice a small amount swelling/bloating and gained weight from water.
But yeah, I'm almost done with loading, so I expect I'll start noticing something soon. The problem I have with dissolving it isn't clumping, it doesn't clump like whey or something. It just swirls around in the glass then settles on the bottom. It acts just like sand. I don't think it actually is sand, because sand would feel much harder between my teeth. I'm just worried that if no amount of agitation will get it to dissolve in water that it wouldn't actually dissolve in my stomach either.
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(in reply to danmirage)
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