Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II

D...the only things that is not progressing is how you are seeing it.
More carbs are one driving factor to gains, including muscle.
So if you increase your carbs, you increase your gains per calorie...so you can gain with fewer calories.

Your activity lever sees you resistance train 3x a week and then train every day with other training.
There is the trick.  Lots of Cardio can burn muscle.

I know that you come from having more BF than you wanted.  But you are in control of it now.  You know how to lose BF.
Now you want to learn how to gain muscle optimally with your body.

As for BF...
Depends on the specific goal.

If you are at 160 15% (24 lbs BF) and want to be 160 and 10%, (16 lbs BF) then that is one thing.
If you are at 150 and 15% (22 lbs BF) and want 220 at 12% (26 pounds BF) that is entirely different.

The general answer is usually that you cycle, you do a leaning round whenever you feel you need to to shake things up.
You stay real.  You are not going to gain optimally at 9% bodyfat without gaining some BF.  Each body has a comfort point at which it likes to hold fat and lets you gain muscle optimally.

We control that point over time...by eating balanced and not starving the body very often.  Using diet to drop fat and then eating balanced again...so the body acclimates to the new BF.  Get it?

When you lean, you get to change the routine, the diet...then you take a week off and let things rest, and pick up again maybe at strength and then move into hypertrophy and mass again...

...wash...rinse...repeat....

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- so should i be expecting more muscle gain in the future if i stay consistent with my current diet/training (with progression)?

ORIGINAL: danmirage
  Each body has a comfort point at which it likes to hold fat and lets you gain muscle optimally.

We control that point over time...by eating balanced and not starving the body very often.  Using diet to drop fat and then eating balanced again...so the body acclimates to the new BF.  Get it?

does that basically mean that i might not gain optimally if i try to stay under 10% but if i stay there long enough my body will acllimate to it and i will be able to gain optimally at that level?

Dan im sorry but i can't take this anymore
5 weeks ago i was getting horrible results and couldn't stand it. since then i've tried upping my carbs and lowering my protein like u said. ive been trying to ignore it and not think about it but ive been getting consistently worse. from 5 weeks ago ive gained 2.1 pounds of fat and lost 1.1lb. of muscle. i know ur an expert and what ur saying is working for u but something isn't right here. i mean my nutrition is perfect and training is hard and progressive, everything is in place. and i can't see a change to something like 40/40/20 being that much of a change either. i just have no idea whats wrong and i want to take ur advice because i know it works for u and i know u know what ur talking about but i feel horrible every time i look at or think about these results.
i like bodybuilding, but not when i just get worse at it every week. im not trying to make u some counselor or something that listens to my problems...but i seriously dont think i can stand more than another week or two of this. i would think even if i gained a lot of fat i would at least gain a lot of muscle with it too with the higher carbs....

sorry for ranting but i feel like crap right now....

edit: looking back at this i dont mean to sound so drama-queenish (for complete lack of a better word lol) but im hoping u can see where im coming from.

does that basically mean that i might not gain optimally if i try to stay under 10% but if i stay there long enough my body will acllimate to it and i will be able to gain optimally at that level?

More likely you need to find the point where it is not resistant RIGHT now, then gradually lower the BF set point that growth is optimal at!

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ORIGINAL: David1991

Dan im sorry but i can't take this anymore
5 weeks ago i was getting horrible results and couldn't stand it. since then i've tried upping my carbs and lowering my protein like u said. ive been trying to ignore it and not think about it but ive been getting consistently worse. from 5 weeks ago ive gained 2.1 pounds of fat and lost 1.1lb. of muscle. i know ur an expert and what ur saying is working for u but something isn't right here. i mean my nutrition is perfect and training is hard and progressive, everything is in place. and i can't see a change to something like 40/40/20 being that much of a change either. i just have no idea whats wrong and i want to take ur advice because i know it works for u and i know u know what ur talking about but i feel horrible every time i look at or think about these results.
i like bodybuilding, but not when i just get worse at it every week. im not trying to make u some counselor or something that listens to my problems...but i seriously dont think i can stand more than another week or two of this. i would think even if i gained a lot of fat i would at least gain a lot of muscle with it too with the higher carbs....

sorry for ranting but i feel like crap right now....

edit: looking back at this i dont mean to sound so drama-queenish (for complete lack of a better word lol) but im hoping u can see where im coming from.

I understand, sticking points are frustrating.  You got stuck and were afraid to switch dramatically and change your body's responses.  We all do that.

(P.S. It is not that this formula works for me, it has worked for thousands of clients trained by one group I worked with.)

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Hi Dan,

I had a question or 2 for ya if its ok.

Right now im in a cutting phase and have successfully gone from 238 to about 225 right now. I started to do kind of a carb cycle, mon-fri is low carbish around 100-125 and sat sun...I havent really kept count but its much higher I would estimate probably around 300.

Im going to start another bulk phase after this, and was wondering if carb cycling can work while on a bulk. My last bulk was a disaster, I never kept track of calories and put on a lot more fat then I wanted.

Also, im just curious but I have noticed my strength has gone down a bit...while on a cut is it normal to experience such a lose in strength? It worries me a bit...ultimately I care about strength over mass, but there is a "look" I do want to achieve. I dont want to just be huge with a good amount of fat and strong, I do want to have a decent definition.

My ultimate goal for now is to get to 215-220ish and around 10-12%. I plan on playing semi-pro football again next year.

Thanks in advance, I really love reading what you have to say.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Yes, low cabs will = low strength.

Also, carbs are a large part of gaining mass and strength...as well as a key part of sports performance (i.e. football.)

Can you cycle and bulk and perform well?  Yes, but not with that low a level of carbs.

Cycle around your training and games.
They should be adequately high for pre during and post training and game days.

But on non... pre during and post training and game days you can cycle the carbs down for a tweak.

Carbs = energy and prime growth...be careful how you handle them

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When it comes to nutrition I try to keep it as simple as possible. Sometimes it gets overwhelming
 
This carb cycling is going pretty good for cutting, but I had no idea about the bulk...I know your supposed to take in more carbs while bulking. And thank you for explaining the strength part!
 
Maybe someday ill be able to fully understand everythign in your posts/forum topics, ill get there eventually. haha
 
Thanks again!

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Please feel free to ask about any odd comment that is not clear or whatever...
I am happy to put anything in more useful terms!

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hey dan, i hear about some bodybuilders having thier post workout meal be the biggest of the day when they are trying to put on size.  what are the effects of this. also, i hear of alot of them eating alot of high glycemic carbs to try and drive the protein into quick use. i figure that the pwo and pwo shakes do this same thing but is it over doing it with alot of rice cakes and fast break down foods or is it ok? ive been bulking for 2 weeks and have gone from 158.5 to 161.5 and actually lost half an inch on my waist this week. im really happy with  the results based on what ive been following from your advice.  i noticed in your thread about bulking that you can gain 1-2 lbs of lbm a week. is this truly possible? that just seems like alot of flesh for your body to develop within 7 days. the body is amazing though, but can you go deeper into the details of how this can be?  i know stimuli with proper nutrients and rest all play a huge role , but it just sounds too good to be true.  even half a pound of muscle a week blows my mind. when i think of 8 oz of chicken breast im like "wow!!" thats alot of fat free lbm on my body with a week!! but hey, i trust your words so please do tell. thanks dan hope to hear back from you asap. ill keep posting my weekly results.

Hey, I will get back to you on this later...in the middle of exams!

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hey dan im sure your busy and for some reason my message isnt coming up on the forum but were you still gonna be getting back to me with response to  my question  about if its ok to make your post workout meal larger then the rest and what the pros and cons to this can be? im really curious, let me know though if my post never made it on and ill repost. thanks dan!!-roger

Sorry, thought I approved it!  I am still tied up...just a few more papers to write!

Will answer you in a few days!

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First you have to understand that when you are eating 4000 calories over 8 meals of about 500 calories...your post workout nutrition might be a significant number of calories compared to that.

I don't think you want to intentionally take in more calories at that time.  Just get what you need!

Yes, your post and even pre workout goal for optimal mass gains is to make growth hormone levels, and that means more specifically insulin levels, rise and get the proteins and carbs into the system during the amazing post workout window of growth.

However if you take in too much...insulin will store those extra calories for you...but as fat.

As for gaining 1-2 pounds a week.  It is very possible.  Yes.  There will come a time when it is not so easy to gain those pounds...if I got to 260-320, I imagine that it could be harder to get the food required to maintain that muscle and the stimulus to keep it growing.  But if that was the goal then I would.

It would require some smart smart training and eating.

How can it be?

Simple, insulin is a storage hormone. Post workout nutrition for mass gains is designed to make growth hormone levels high and the stimulus from the constant variation in training makes your body suck up the nutrients.

If you want to see how this works, look over my journal (link in my signature) where I show the meals, training and variations, changes in mass, etc for a 1/2 - 2 pound or more gain in muscle mass per week.

I have gone from 135 to 195 in a year (1 pound per week) with weeks off, cutting phases and what not.  That was all new weight zones.

I could get to 200 right now and climb to 240-260 in a year if I wanted that.

NON-Linear Progressions in training, cycling your goal, advancing nutrition to keep feeding the gains, naps, recovery, shorter more intense training, smart training schemes...that all it takes.

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sweet, thanks. hey is dextrose powder better then eating a whole banana post workout? i know the banana has more vit and nutrients but its just hard to have a blender around to get my shake in postworkout. if i could eat the banana and drink the whey that would work great for my prep time and schedule, its just the blender issue. would a banana be sucked up by your body fairly fast when eaten, or would you recommend the dextrose over  the whole food. please let me know ,thanks!!

If the goal is maximal gains then either is fine.  I would not say they are equal...but certainly, they will both get you your results!  Banana is pretty fast sugar, but the dextrose is predigested...so naturally faster.

If your body is highly responsive to carbs like mine, then the banana is almost too much.  My point being to point out that there is an aspect of individuality to the response to the carb choice and you need to pay attention to that.

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cool ,got it, thanks dan.  im ending my third week bulking and im at about 162-162.5. started at 158.5 so im feeling pretty good about it. ive really got my mental condition in check right now too. its just like you said, if your main concern is with gaining muscle then you shouldnt be so focused on trying to do anything and everything to keep every ounce of fat gone. that was always one of my major mental set backs in the past. it seemed like yeah i wanted to try and get huge, but was always putting "i dont want to gain fat" in front of everything.  now that my mental state is more focused and clear i am really really excited and have a huge weight off my shoulders. i plan on really going for it this time. i will post results and stay in touch on a normal basis . oh yeah, where are you located? do you work for a major gym corporation or a private? just curious. me and my wife travel from time to time and i would really like to get some sessions with you if we ever are near in the future. thanks man!!

Good to hear!  Yes, that mental bump sometimes gets in the way of people really getting to their goal!

Nothing wrong with the "clean bulk" and certainly if one pays attention to their own body, one can learn how to manage the fat so that one can even easily lose fat during a bulk.  But as you note, if you want to gain, you should go for it.  After all, is it really any trouble to cut?  No.

I am at Cal State LA at the moment, but may be switching to another university to do performance research.

We have a brand new facility and new labs, but my studies have been so intense, I barely have time to sleep and train at home!

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hey dan what do you recommend as a muscle saving emergency plan if its even possible when you get sick like with a 24 hour stomach flu where you cant eat for an entire 24 hours without throwing up. is there anything you can do to try and not lose muscle or is one day like that rarely happening even an issue. i just ask cause that happened to me the other day and i dropped from 162.5  back down to 158.5 within a day. i know i was majorly dehydrated but even once i started to level off my weight didnt go much higher then this. ive been well a week and am at 159.5 so i gained a pound since that happened a week ago so im back on track but yeah, just curious what you would do in the situation.

The #1 thing is to hydrate!
#2 for that kind of thing is to rest.

Now there are strategies you can use...glutamine, BCAAs, EAAs for instance, to help the gut and get essential aminos.
Vegetable and fruit juices if you can.  Real chicken soup with garlic, onion, celery, carrot, etc...

Remember, if you could not eat, the majority of the weight was water and gut clearance.  So it can take 2 weeks to get back on track.

I always think that is a good time to take 2 weeks off.

When you return to training, start lower on the training intensity curve and gradually crank up the heat.

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