Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II

i know its from hst and i read through all of it. i guess i wasn't considering that it had to start at 15 since i was already doing lower reps than that and i was planning on following the principles except starting lower, clearly thats not a good idea lol.

Well, its not that it is a good idea or not..but as I was stating earlier...the HST program is a program.  So if you are borrowing ideas from it, then you are not doing HST.

It is good to borrow and learn to create your own progressions...but to learn how something works, you nedd to learn from observing it in its entirety to see the full dynamic.  Chopping it up dilutes the dynamic and then it is something else.  The effects and dynamic will be different.

Many programs have components that are grouped and simultaneously cross-modulated for a specific effect.
Duration/progression/pairings of movements/intensity/frequency/micro-modulations/amplitudes/accelerations/etc

Chop one of those out and use it alone and it is something different with a very different result.

Many people do this and still say, "I did x..."

Really, they experimented with something they created on their own.
That's ok.  Just don't confuse the two. 

"I took one component from program X and did it by itself."
...is more accurate.

In fact your goal is to amass a huge toolbox of skills that YOU can simultaneously cross-modulate for ongoing results!

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ok i get what your saying. Also i have dont HST before and liked it, i guess i meant i was going to follow certain principles from it. but yea ur right its not like i would actually be following "hst", just some principles. i was planning on actually following it completely after the 6-rep cycle for 2 weeks. i was going to take a week off and start at the top but i think i'll begin the 3-day routine first and go from there.

jw though, if i continue(d) with the 6-rep range idea for the next 2 weeks adding 2.5-5lb. each workout to each lift would that still be good in ur opinion or do u think its better to start at the higher rep range and go down?

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Note that the rest length is INCREASING.
This is paired with the resistance INCREASING.

This is not a mistake.

wait so ur saying the weight is supposed to go up that much each workout even with the rep changes??

Workout 1
Sets: 3
Reps: 5
Rest: 60 seconds between sets
Load: Choose a weight that forces you to near-failure for the last rep of the last set.*
*This is the recommended load for all workouts.
Workout 2
Sets: 3
Reps: 8
Rest: 90 seconds between sets
Workout 3
sets: 2
Reps: 15
Rest: 120 seconds between sets


Now i'd say i can deadlift 240lb. for 3x5 ending probably near failure on the last set. i know i cant do 3x8 for 240 (because i actually tried 235 a few weeks ago and couldnt for 3x8) and theres no way i could do 2x15 with 245, not even close.

i could see the increased rest time allowing the same amount of reps with a heavier weight but i would not be able to do a heavier weight 2x15 than i did with 3x5, no where near it. also considering the fact that he only reccomends failure/near failure on the last set.


i'll follow what u said and go through the routine for the next 6-8 weeks, take a break (because after 8 weeks it will be 13 weeks without a break which is too long usually), and then do hst if i dont have to cut by then.

but im still not sure what to do about this loading principle with the program.

Now you are back to discussin increasing weight as a progression?
As I keep saying, by itself that is not really a key progression because it is a limited quantity unless you use it in a specific matrix.

It is a strength progression, but again, not optimally effective alone.

Try this, look at the layout of all the variables in HST and try to say what all the various intensity progressions are. 
For instance, why start at such high reps? (Other than the research behind it.)
Is starting at high reps a progression?  What else happens with the high reps to make it not a solo intensity progression but part of a cross-modulated intensity progression?

The subsequent workout would be week 2 or, if you are beat doing the antagonist training, week 3.

You pair like training. (5-rep, 8-rep, 15 rep)
 
Example

Week 1
5 rep weight  210
8 rep weight 180
15 rep weight 145
week 2
5 rep weight 220
8 rep weight 190
15 rep weight 150

Week 3
5 rep weight 230
8 rep weight 200
15 rep weight 155

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Now you are back to discussin increasing weight as a progression?
As I keep saying, by itself that is not really a key progression because it is a limited quantity unless you use it in a specific matrix.

It is a strength progression, but again, not optimally effective alone.

well actually thats why i was wondering why u considered hst to be a good program. from what i can tell the only 2 variables changing throughout the program are weight increasing each workout and reps decreasing every 2 weeks. if weight alone isnt a good progression and no other variable changes workout to workout, i cant see why it would be considered good.
they do say u can change exercises back and forth but if i recall correctly it's not a necessary part of the program (but knowing what i do know its probably something one should implement as part of the program)

ORIGINAL: danmirage

The subsequent workout would be week 2 or, if you are beat doing the antagonist training, week 3.

You pair like training. (5-rep, 8-rep, 15 rep)

Example

Week 1
5 rep weight  210
8 rep weight 180
15 rep weight 145
week 2
5 rep weight 220
8 rep weight 190
15 rep weight 150
Week 3
5 rep weight 230
8 rep weight 200
15 rep weight 155

thats what i was getting at originally, that it wasn't each workout it was the next workout of the same rep range. okay that definately makes more sense. i dont think the weight increases would be that much but i get the point.

ok well that clears that up, i'll begin with workout 1 tuesday.
for the antagonist workouts it would be like
chest, rest, back, rest, etc...right?
not supersetting like chest, back, rest, etc....?

ok well that clears that up, i'll begin with workout 1 tuesday.
for the antagonist workouts it would be like
chest, rest, back, rest, etc...right?
not supersetting like chest, back, rest, etc....?

Remember you are looking for a progression in intesnity, supersetting them is one way to do that.
In efect it makes you double the work per unit time without changeing other variables.  Nifty tool.

Alternating them gives the muscle LOTS of rest.

HST has more variations in it than that. 
You are missing some things.
More advanced people have more variations they can add.

For a beginner, just varying the 4 basic variables is loads of progression.
Then the advanced person can modify multiple groupings of variables.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

ok well that clears that up, i'll begin with workout 1 tuesday.
for the antagonist workouts it would be like
chest, rest, back, rest, etc...right?
not supersetting like chest, back, rest, etc....?

Remember you are looking for a progression in intesnity, supersetting them is one way to do that.
In efect it makes you double the work per unit time without changeing other variables.  Nifty tool.

Alternating them gives the muscle LOTS of rest.

right, so he's suggesting to superset them together as a bigger form of progression? or is that just what u suggest i do? (either way if its what u or he reccomends i'll do it)

and then i assume u dont have any supersets the next week....

ORIGINAL: danmirage

HST has more variations in it than that. 
You are missing some things.
More advanced people have more variations they can add.

For a beginner, just varying the 4 basic variables is loads of progression.
Then the advanced person can modify multiple groupings of variables.

really? what else am i missing? i see the rep changes, and the weight going up. theres the option of changing exercises. thats all i see. he mentions "strategic deconditioning" but i dont think thats a progression so much since its just a week off so u can start gaining again.

the more i look at it the more i see this is actually a very similar routine to alwyn cosgrove's NROL routine, except NROL is a split routine. maybe that would be a good thing to transition to right after the 8 weeks of this routine.

I dont know if it matters but it seems strange that the rest time increases as the reps increase, usually the lower the reps the longer the rest time is.
also it seems wierd that in week 3-4 he has u doing 4x8 for some, yet by week 5 ur doing 2x8. some other factors change but not much

i guess i will be supersetting when i do the alternate muscle groups and go back to not supersetting when i do the odd weeks.
question: for pairing antagonist muscles what if there is no antagonist? as in i do squats, bench, row, military press, curl, tri extension.   obviously back/chest and bi/tri. but do i put squats and military press together?

i figured out how to work each muscle by switching them around each workout (the smaller ones anyway) so im creating more variance with the muscles and exercises but like i said idk how im supposed to pair the supersets when they dont have the antagonist muscle being worked
for his example "For instance, perform quads/hams, chest/back, and biceps/triceps exercise pairings for the recommended sets and reps"  he actually uses 3 compound movements and 3 single joint exercises (hams, bi's, tri's), going against what he says to do.

and do u suggest i change exercises for each rep range? it seems like it would give more variance and work different fibers.(lol sry, as im making the routines im thinking of more questions)

Naturally, if no ideal antagonsit is in your plan (quads-hams/Back-chest/Bi-Tri, etc)...then use something convenient to you is fine.
He was giving examples.  you have to look at your program and group all the agonists, then do your best with the rest.

in week 3-4 he has u doing 4x8 for some, yet by week 5 ur doing 2x8. some other factors change but not much

Sounds like you are calling the multiple variations "not much."

Learn to look for the progressions.  Seeing them and knowing the value is important.
Try making a chart and charting rest interval, pace, exercise, sets, reps, resistance, time, intensity variations, etc from day to day
It will say something like: down  UP / changed UP / Down / Up / Down / change to Superset ...etc
And then you can see soem of the ongoing progressions...though I hear that you do not quite gras  it all yet.

I don't know NROL but he tends to plan continuous progressions.

Oh, change exercises as he recommends...

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Oh, change exercises as he recommends...

4) Constantly rotate exercises from each category. In other words, don’t always start your session with a chest/back pairing. You must keep rotating the body parts and exercises you begin each session with.

"Don’t perform the same exercise for more than two weeks in a row. For example, if you performed a flat barbell bench press as your chest exercise for Weeks 1 and 2, you must switch to either incline, decline or dumbbell bench presses for another two weeks before switching again."

8) Be creative! I’m giving you endless options. Just be sure to pick four compound exercises and two single-joint exercises with each session. You can rotate exercises as much as you desire. All you have to do is follow the prescribed parameters.

In the second one of them he says dont perform it for more than 2 weeks, in the first he says u must keep rotating exercises, in the 3rd one he says u can rotate exercises as much as u want.

however he also says in the second one "if you performed a flat barbell bench press as your chest exercise for Weeks 1 and 2, you must switch to either incline, decline or dumbbell bench presses for another two weeks before switching again."

so im getting mixed things there. is it okay to do pull ups and dips today (cause i know i can atleast do 3x5 for them but not 3x8 or 3x15) and then bench and row thursday and saturday? i would think it would give more variety which he talks about being key and also i cant see why it would matter since rep ranges change anyway

edit: also i was planning on switching between sumo DL once a week (lowest reps) and squats twice a week since he says to only do 4 big compound exercises and each work legs and lower back (but to different degrees of course)

#4 = Dont START each session with the same bodypart, change what you work first.  Legs, back, chest...rotate the first thing worked.
#8+ = Change exercises as much as you like, but at a minimum, dont do the same thing for more than 2 weeks.

think about it...Are pull ups and dips on his exercise list....

His set/rep ranges are not just random changes.  They have specific functions, so if you alter the rep range you alter the program.
Nobody does it perfectly, but stick to it as closely as you can.

You should understand that Chad has a very deep understanding of how the body works from years of study and application, and is manipulating on a number of subtle and effective levels

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

#4 = Dont START each session with the same bodypart, change what you work first.  Legs, back, chest...rotate the first thing worked.

ok i thought that might be what he was trying to say
 

ORIGINAL: danmirage


#8+ = Change exercises as much as you like, but at a minimum, dont do the same thing for more than 2 weeks.

 
ok good, that works out well then
 

ORIGINAL: danmirage


think about it...Are pull ups and dips on his exercise list....

His set/rep ranges are not just random changes.  They have specific functions, so if you alter the rep range you alter the program.
Nobody does it perfectly, but stick to it as closely as you can.

 
well both of those exercises are on the list, and i wasnt planning on changing any of the reps or sets he laid out so it looks like im good there.
i did the first workout today, i liked it a lot actually...short though but i dont have a problem with that

according to my calipers i lost 1.1lb. of fat and gained 0.4lb. of muscle.

im happy about that of course, now i have to decide what to do with that. last time i was in this situation i added calories (260) and i gained 1.8lb. of fat and lost .3lb. of fat that week. so that was of course bad but im trying to gain muscle meaning i need to gain weight in general to a point.

i think its also important to note that the last 2 times i gained muscle and lost fat was when 1. i changed to the higher carb ratio's u recommended and switched to the short HIIT sessions and 2. this week i added 1 min. to 2 of the HIIT sessions since i gained fat last week and replaced the 3rd HIIT session with about an hour of moderate-low intensity tennis with my friend

based on my results and past few weeks results do u recommend i stay exactly where i am with cardio and calories and just progress with the routine or do u think it would be smart to add cardio for fat loss stimulus or maybe add calories for increased muscle gain (hopefully) or even both to be more active with higher calories? or possibly (i think this would be a good idea but let me know) just add maybe 150 calories on workout days or something

If your goal is to Gain Muscle, then overall you should not be pursuing a fat loss goal at the same time.
Your decisions should be based on your main goal.  As you see, you can tweak the program any time to prime fat loss.
Fat loss and muscle gain, as you may recall from Dan Gastelu's talks, involve different chemical pathways that are not entirely compatible.

If half your efforts are always directed toward stimulating fat loss, then you are not in an optimal muscle gaining position.
So you moved into a fat loss microcycle and lost 1 pound fat and gained .4 pounds muscle.  That is fairly optimal for a fat loss cycle and difficult for most people.

Did you keep your calories up since that caloric rise --> "last time i was in this situation i added calories (260)"?

You can do less cardio and effectively have more calories for gaining mass...
Then when you have gained more muscle you can bump the calories up and if your fat rises, repeat the cycle...

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

If your goal is to Gain Muscle, then overall you should not be pursuing a fat loss goal at the same time.
Your decisions should be based on your main goal.  As you see, you can tweak the program any time to prime fat loss.
Fat loss and muscle gain, as you may recall from Dan Gastelu's talks, involve different chemical pathways that are not entirely compatible.

If half your efforts are always directed toward stimulating fat loss, then you are not in an optimal muscle gaining position.
So you moved into a fat loss microcycle and lost 1 pound fat and gained .4 pounds muscle.  That is fairly optimal for a fat loss cycle and difficult for most people.

ok well my main goal is definitely to gain muscle however i want to keep fat as low as possible and am not really ok with gaining an equal amount of fat as muscle (or more)

ORIGINAL: danmirage
Did you keep your calories up since that caloric rise --> "last time i was in this situation i added calories (260)"?

yes i added the 260 calorie and gained the 1.8lb. of fat while losing .3lb. of muscle. the the following week (this last week) i kept the calories the same and added the 1 min. to the 2 HIIT sessions and replaced one with tennis with my friend.

ORIGINAL: danmirage

You can do less cardio and effectively have more calories for gaining mass...
Then when you have gained more muscle you can bump the calories up and if your fat rises, repeat the cycle...

ok well im not sure about taking away cardio because essentially im just giving myself more calories on the days im taking away the cardio, when the extra calories aren't needed as much. also it seems like adding even that little bit helped with the fat this week (could be other factors, im not completely sure).
wouldn't it make more sense to add maybe 150 calories or so on my workout days so i have more when i need them more?

It is a mistake, when focused on muscle gain, to think you need fewer calories on off days.  What do you think happens when the body has 2500 calories and then only has 2250?  Essential tasks continue and non-essential tasks are delayed.  Building muscle is non-essential, fat storage is an essential task...in the body sense of survival.  If your body adapts to the 2250 level, what do you think it does with the extra 250 calories every other day?

Give it the same energy every day and give it all the nutrients every meal.  Allow your body to be in a steady state so it is not adjusting to caloric and nutrient changes all the time (you can modulate them on occasion to tweak from the steady baseline.)

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

It is a mistake, when focused on muscle gain, to think you need fewer calories on off days.  What do you think happens when the body has 2500 calories and then only has 2250?  Essential tasks continue and non-essential tasks are delayed.  Building muscle is non-essential, fat storage is an essential task...in the body sense of survival.  If your body adapts to the 2250 level, what do you think it does with the extra 250 calories every other day?

Give it the same energy every day and give it all the nutrients every meal.  Allow your body to be in a steady state so it is not adjusting to caloric and nutrient changes all the time (you can modulate them on occasion to tweak from the steady baseline.)

normally there is a 100 calorie difference though between workout and non-workout days because of the pre-workout carbs (whereas i just have protein pre-cardio and no "pre anything" on days i do no cardio which is once a week so that day is 190 calories less than workout days, 90 less than cardio days), is that too much? 100 calories doesn't seem like a huge difference and i am using the carbs in my workout for the most part

anyway though ur explanation is helpful to know, so i will keep the calories close to the same on all days. considering my weight loss though but also slight muscle gain what do u suggest i do with my calories? they're currently at
TOTALS: 2991.75 calories, 220.045g protein, 335.05g carbs, 92.715g fat
            28.81% protein   43.87% carbs   27.32% fat

..

also along with that last question i was thinking about what u said about keeping calories the same even on off days so u have enough for muscle growth.

but wouldn't u still need less calories for that day anyway becuase u wouldn't have burnt the calories during weightlifting?

for example
weight lifting days: need calories for all bodily tasks + calories burned during exercise
off days: need calories for all bodily tasks

ORIGINAL: David1991

also along with that last question i was thinking about what u said about keeping calories the same even on off days so u have enough for muscle growth.

but wouldn't u still need less calories for that day anyway becuase u wouldn't have burnt the calories during weightlifting?

for example
weight lifting days: need calories for all bodily tasks + calories burned during exercise
off days: need calories for all bodily tasks

Think about these ideas...
Is your goal to repair muscle or maintain a steady weight?
Do you think muscle repair requires an ongoing (24 hour) energy expenditure?

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Possibly your diet is still relatively low carb and high protein and I would not be surprised if you were still a little resistant to growth.
Nothing you can do at the moment about that other than bring the carbs more in line and let the protein adjust.

But when you take your next week off, DROP the protein LOW so you have room to modultate it later!

I Adjust the eating on the non training days....100 calories is pretty close though.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Think about these ideas...
Is your goal to repair muscle or maintain a steady weight?
Do you think muscle repair requires an ongoing (24 hour) energy expenditure?

well i would want to replair muscle but what im saying is wouldn't u need all the same calories as a day u would be working out minus the calories burned during exercise? i mean if ur eating the same on days off as workout days u would have an even bigger surplus on off days.
(i could be off here, im just trying to think logically based on what i know...but of course theres a good deal of the science i do not completely know)

also since today would be day 1 of the new week as far as my weigh ins/measurements taken goes do u think i should raise the calories again keeping macro ratio's the same(close to 25-30p/45c/25-30f)? if so, how much? i want to make sure the same thing as 2 weeks ago doesn't happen (gain fat, lose muscle when i added even 250 calories).

You had a net loss.
If your routine is not changing, then you are in a caloric deficit. 
If it is changing, then you have to look at if you are adding work or lowering workload.

What you can do, if you have the fat to burn, is go another week as is on the calories and really see how you do.

Next week you should lose weight again
More muscle = more calories burned.
More activity = more calories burned.

Next week bring up the carbs and let the protein ride as is. 
The ratio should drop to around 25-ish.

Why?
This is to see what is going on!
How is your body responding?
That week you will gain some weight.
Then you will lose some weight.
But you want to see how it changes the weight you keep.
You may gain muscle while other weight fluctuates for about 2 weeks.
After that, you should look at your overall again.

You should know more than you do now.

Remember, you want to modulate ONE factor at a time and let the effects play out, to learn about how you really work.
(Don't expect to see understandable results if you change cardio, alter the exercise routine significantly, change sleep patterns, and change the diet...)

This is a short term understanding.

You will see things similar to this...from where you are now...
Raise carbs...weight goes up then down over 2 weeks..but overall gain muscle.
Raise balanced profile (20-25% protein - 45-50% carbs 25-30% fats) gain muscle ongoing week after week
Raise protein gain muscle for short term (two-four weeks) then gains stop.  Then start losing.

well i would want to replair muscle but what im saying is wouldn't u need all the same calories as a day u would be working out minus the calories burned during exercise? i mean if ur eating the same on days off as workout days u would have an even bigger surplus on off days.
(i could be off here, im just trying to think logically based on what i know...but of course theres a good deal of the science i do not completely know)

I know you think it is logical based on what you know.  But really, it is not.
First you have to eat for the cardio.  It burns calories.
Second you have to eat for the recovery, it burns calories as if you were training for up to 48 hours.
Third, the body responds to variations in calories in...there are feedback mechanisms.
Unless you TRAIN the mechanisms to respond the way you want them to, they don't respond favorably most of the time.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

You had a net loss.
If your routine is not changing, then you are in a caloric deficit. 
If it is changing, then you have to look at if you are adding work or lowering workload.

What you can do, if you have the fat to burn, is go another week as is on the calories and really see how you do.

Next week you should lose weight again
More muscle = more calories burned.
More activity = more calories burned.

Next week bring up the carbs and let the protein ride as is. 
The ratio should drop to around 25-ish.

Why?
This is to see what is going on!
How is your body responding?
That week you will gain some weight.
Then you will lose some weight.
But you want to see how it changes the weight you keep.
You may gain muscle while other weight fluctuates for about 2 weeks.
After that, you should look at your overall again.

ok so ur saying this week keep calories the same to see how i react and then next week (3/8-3/15) add carbs?

ORIGINAL: danmirage

You should know more than you do now.

Remember, you want to modulate ONE factor at a time and let the effects play out, to learn about how you really work.
(Don't expect to see understandable results if you change cardio, alter the exercise routine significantly, change sleep patterns, and change the diet...)

This is a short term understanding.

You will see things similar to this...from where you are now...
Raise carbs...weight goes up then down over 2 weeks..but overall gain muscle.
Raise balanced profile (20-25% protein - 45-50% carbs 25-30% fats) gain muscle ongoing week after week
Raise protein gain muscle for short term (two-four weeks) then gains stop.  Then start losing.

ok well the only other factor changing would be the supersetting of antagonist muscle groups and adding 1.25-2.5% of the load, due to the parameters of C.W.'s routine.

now this carb raise is only to see how my body reacts right? but in general u should raise everything equally?

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Third, the body responds to variations in calories in...there are feedback mechanisms.
Unless you TRAIN the mechanisms to respond the way you want them to, they don't respond favorably most of the time.

ok i'll keep them the same, u said the difference in pre run and pre workout (100 calories) isn't too much right? and then i guess i should still be having atleast the pre run food on off days too (1 scoop protein powder). i have not been doing that so there has been 190 calories less on completely off days than workout days

ok so ur saying this week keep calories the same to see how i react and then next week (3/8-3/15) add carbs?

It might be worth your while to see ow your body reacts.
If you lose muscle and gain fat right now...then you know you are below some nutrient needs somewhere and so the body is responding by catabolizing protein (for carbs, etc) and storing fat.  Also if the change is a net loss, it will be good to help calculate an average caloric need.

Supersets may drive more calories out, but you will still see the trend.

now this carb raise is only to see how my body reacts right? but in general u should raise everything equally?

For the most part, yes.
Your protein is a bit high and carbs a bit low, so it is worth moving that to be more in the middle and see how your body responds.  Also it gives you more rom to wiggle and control things later.

atleast the pre run food on off days too (1 scoop protein powder)

Not protein powder.  On off days have food.  Adjust your meals.  The protein is for immediate availability pre and post workout, not to replace food.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

ok so ur saying this week keep calories the same to see how i react and then next week (3/8-3/15) add carbs?

It might be worth your while to see ow your body reacts.
If you lose muscle and gain fat right now...then you know you are below some nutrient needs somewhere and so the body is responding by catabolizing protein (for carbs, etc) and storing fat.  Also if the change is a net loss, it will be good to help calculate an average caloric need.

hmm, so basically this week is more of a "learning my body" week than getting results? do u think i'll even be seeing positive results this week since im progressing in training or is it more likely i'll be maintaining?

ORIGINAL: danmirage
Supersets may drive more calories out, but you will still see the trend.

ok. man i just figured out the estimated time for tomorrows workout (3x5, 60 sec. rest, about 4020 tempo) which is usually within 1-5min. of how long it actually takes and my workout is only going to take about 18 min. tomorrow. it just seems so short even though it should be intense.

ORIGINAL: danmirage

atleast the pre run food on off days too (1 scoop protein powder)

Not protein powder.  On off days have food.  Adjust your meals.  The protein is for immediate availability pre and post workout, not to replace food.

ok so real food but still make up the 90 calories with a good whole protein source


i was thinking i might have some trouble seeing how i react because next fri-sun i'll be snowboarding in the poconos and originally (since im with my friend and his family) i was going to have 2 cheat days but i think i'll just try to bring my food except for maybe 1-3 meals with them. snowboarding will be adding activity though.

does it matter if i blend almost all of my food into a shake for the trip? as far as digestibility, insulin, and other factors go..

hmm, so basically this week is more of a "learning my body" week than getting results? do u think i'll even be seeing positive results this week since im progressing in training or is it more likely i'll be maintaining?

You may still see modest muscle gains (.25 pounds) and maybe even more fat loss (1 pound or so).

ok. man i just figured out the estimated time for tomorrows workout (3x5, 60 sec. rest, about 4020 tempo) which is usually within 1-5min. of how long it actually takes and my workout is only going to take about 18 min. tomorrow. it just seems so short even though it should be intense.

Same work in less time = intensity

ok so real food but still make up the 90 calories with a good whole protein source

Not necessarily protein...balanced 25/45/30.

The protein is for pre/post workout.

Yes, you will need to eat more for the snowboarding...treat it as a workout with pre and post nutrition and carbs during if you go over 40 minutes. 

Have fun.  Eat!!

Depending on how far in advance you blend adn if it is in a cooler...but yes that works VERY well for many things.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Yes, you will need to eat more for the snowboarding...treat it as a workout with pre and post nutrition and carbs during if you go over 40 minutes. 

Have fun.  Eat!!

well it will definitely be longer than 40 min, probably a few hours. i didn't think of it as a workout but it makes sense that it would burn a lot of calories overall so i'll have the pre/post workout food.  i still stay at the 2990 calories though right? (well i guess 3040 since its a "workout" day and 2990 was the average b/w the 2 days)

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Depending on how far in advance you blend adn if it is in a cooler...but yes that works VERY well for many things.

well what i was planning on doing was blending all of my meals (except 2 dinners that i would have to have with the family, i'll keep it as healthy as i can though) for friday afternoon-sunday afternoon on thursday afternoon and friday before we left. i would keep them refrigerated before we leave but i cant fit 10-12 shakes in a cooler. i'll try to use their refrigerator i guess once we get there.

if i use eggs in my shakes would raw eggs be fine or should i cook them then blend them? (it would be 3 in one day)

Now you are starting to scare me...pre-blending 10-12 shakes?
Not a good plan.
I have a cooler with 2 preblended in it a day at the University and if I return one to the fridge and try to eat it the next day...it is vomit.

Better to eat food and go with an MRP that you can put in zip lock bags and shake up in your shaker with water, plus bars you can eat.  Bring apples and celery sticks, plus all the other fruit and veggies you can.

I use Think Thin bars. 
2 of those plus a veggie works.
20g protein per bar.
Sold at most Whole foods and Albertsons...

Don't worry about calories...it is ok to go over. 
Just make sure you have food so you don't starve.
Focus on having fun.

You will be fine. 

When you get back, just keep on your plan!

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Now you are starting to scare me...pre-blending 10-12 shakes?
Not a good plan.
I have a cooler with 2 preblended in it a day at the University and if I return one to the fridge and try to eat it the next day...it is vomit.

Better to eat food and go with an MRP that you can put in zip lock bags and shake up in your shaker with water, plus bars you can eat.  Bring apples and celery sticks, plus all the other fruit and veggies you can.

I use Think Thin bars. 
2 of those plus a veggie works.
20g protein per bar.
Sold at most Whole foods and Albertsons...

Don't worry about calories...it is ok to go over. 
Just make sure you have food so you don't starve.
Focus on having fun.

You will be fine. 

When you get back, just keep on your plan!

hmm...thats a problem, whats wrong with just blending all the food and then just drinking it within 2.5 days? if its a matter of the taste i dont mind, but would it actually go bad in a day or 2? btw these wouldnt actually have protein powder in them except maybe 2 of them so if thats the reasons they might go bad its not a problem for most of them.

if i dont have the shakes i dont know how im going to eat other than cheating. i mean sure i can bring some fruit and things like that but most bars (which somehow i recently lost the few i had) have maltodextrin and sugar alcohols and for me to bring enough solid food to eat roughly 6 meals a day and enough calories just wouldn't be able to happen.

most of the food in the shake is normally ok at room temperature so idk why it would go bad except maybe for the fact that it will be in liquid. the bulk of the shakes would be include some or most of the following: Peanut butter, oatmeal, eggs/egg whites, and cottage cheese.
then that nasty one with eggs and yams lol

They ferment and do other things. 
When you blend them, you make their constituent smaller and so they react faster.

3 days?  I bring 12 zip lock bags with my custom MRP mix in it ready to mix in water.  12 think thin bars. (that is 18 meals!)

Or I make some fantastic protein cookies with 125 calories each at 25%p/45%c/30%f and plan eat a veggie or fruit with them.  Gemember the GWAR bars or whatever they were called?  You can bake up a batch in an hour and they don't need to be refrigerated for 4 days...4 of those gives you 500 calories.  I make mine moist and flavorful...

(Then I eat all the pancakes, scrambled eggs, roast potato, pizza and chicken that everyone else eats!)

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

They ferment and do other things. 
When you blend them, you make their constituent smaller and so they react faster.

3 days?  I bring 12 zip lock bags with my custom MRP mix in it ready to mix in water.  12 think thin bars. (that is 18 meals!)

Or I make some fantastic protein cookies with 125 calories each at 25%p/45%c/30%f and plan eat a veggie or fruit with them.  Gemember the GWAR bars or whatever they were called?  You can bake up a batch in an hour and they don't need to be refrigerated for 4 days...4 of those gives you 500 calories.  I make mine moist and flavorful...

well i don't have any meal replacement powders or bars.    if i just put protein powder, oatmeal, and some healthy fat in a bottle and add water when im ready to drink it would that be ok? that seems like a basic, healthy "MRP" in itself
also do u have the recipe to those cookies or anything else that would be good to bring?

how many meals a day do u use that MRP? i would think having it too much definitely isnt good compared to real food but i guess if its the only choice then its necessary

ORIGINAL: danmirage
(Then I eat all the pancakes, scrambled eggs, roast potato, pizza and chicken that everyone else eats!)

lol i may have asked this in the past but what bodytype would u say u are?    i'm not saying i wont enjoy myself once or twice when im up in the poconos but i know most of those foods would pack some serious fat on me