Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II

No, I meant the brevity of the 4 minute progression shown at the bottom of the page.... not the whole 8-weeks.
But if you do progress...going from 4 minutes to only 5 minutes...etc

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

No, I meant the brevity of the 4 minute progression shown at the bottom of the page.... not the whole 8-weeks.
But if you do progress...going from 4 minutes to only 5 minutes...etc

so just dont go past about 5 min. of intervals? ok then i guess i'll leave tommorow at 4 min. and do 5min. next week.
(if i read that wrong my bad, thats how i interpreted it from the  "only 5 min." part but then the etc... made me question it lol.)

quick question

so far ive been finding ways to progress but im wondering about something in the future....

as we talked about tempo is a good way to progress. so far i went from 3030 to 3230 to an explosive 3210. however the only way i can make the tempo significantly harder now is to 1. add time do the eccentric portion and 2. do peak contraction at the top. and at that point each rep is like 9 seconds which is really long.  anyway that would be the hardest the tempo would get for the given rep range.....

but after that happens and i switch rep ranges (probably in a week or 2) to 6-8 (and then higher again after i use a lot of progression in that rep range) can i go back to a faster tempo and build up again? like say starting 6-8 rep range with a 3020 tempo and building back up to harder tempos. then when i switch exercises (in another 2 weeks) start over at a faster tempo again, etc....?
i would think so because otherwise i'd always be doing really long reps which doesn't make much sense to be

Progression is a cyclic principal, not a linear principal.
 
If you are doing 321 and ccange to 121...that is progresion
if you then change to 412...that is progression.
 
Progression is defined as introducing new stimuli that your body must adadpt to.
 
So if a progression does not lead to adaptation...it is no good.
 
Otherwise...

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Progression is a cyclic principal, not a linear principal.

If you are doing 321 and ccange to 121...that is progresion
if you then change to 412...that is progression.

Progression is defined as introducing new stimuli that your body must adadpt to.

So if a progression does not lead to adaptation...it is no good.

Otherwise...

hmm, well i understand that i guess but i would think that making it easier by going faster on the eccentric wouldn't be progression because its already adapted to something even harder than that. just like switching to from 50 to 40lb. with other factors staying the same wouldn't be progression.

the same goes for cutting rest times down, like i might get to 30 sec. for 12 reps but once i switch to the lower reps/heavier weight i would assume i need more rest time.

i assume switching to 3210 to 121 would be progression because by doing that u'd be able to increase weight/reps so that would be the progression?

so tomorrows workout i could switch to 3012 (peak contraction) and that would be another form of progression correct? if thats the case thats helpful because i can just keep changing things up like that. or would it be even better to do a bigger change like 1012 where im going fast with a peak contraction? i assume the larger the change the more the body would have to adapt....

ORIGINAL: danmirage

So if a progression does not lead to adaptation...it is no good.
Otherwise...

well then its not a progression right? or would adding reps be an example of that since like u said before doing that just shows u did indeed adapt? because in ur definition of progression u said a stimuli that ur body must adapt to so having a progression u dont adapt to makes it not a progression i would think lol

It is not a factor of whether it is PERCEIVED to be HARDER for you.
 

the same goes for cutting rest times down, like i might get to 30 sec. for 12 reps but once i switch to the lower reps/heavier weight i would assume i need more rest time.

As always when you make a change, you want to allow THE GREATEST amount of room for change so you can milk every pound of muscle or change from it.
 

so tomorrows workout i could switch to 3012 (peak contraction) and that would be another form of progression correct? if thats the case thats helpful because i can just keep changing things up like that. or would it be even better to do a bigger change like 1012 where im going fast with a peak contraction? i assume the larger the change the more the body would have to adapt....

So if you changed from 12 reps max at 200 pounds with a 121 pace with 60 seconds rest to
a 6 rep max at 240 pounds with a 424 pace with 120 seconds rest that is a progression
Going to 8 reps with 120 seconds rest at 422 is a reasonable progression, then
120 seconds rest at 222
90 seconds rest at 422
90 seconds rest at 222
Then 60 seconds...
All the while the reps might drop to 6 again then work back to 8...but you are progressing.
 
Then you would be altering the exercise angles and order...
 

well then its not a progression right? or would adding reps be an example of that since like u said before doing that just shows u did indeed adapt? because in ur definition of progression u said a stimuli that ur body must adapt to so having a progression u dont adapt to makes it not a progression i would think lol

Right...it is not a progression.  Doing more reps just demonstrates that you did adapt.  But you are still doing the same thing.
 
Now the truth is that reps and weight are tools for progression...but again...the worst ones in the entire orchestra!  If you can force yourself to do something new and you end up dropping reps, etc..you can see that the need to adapt has caused some upset!
 

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ok cool, thanks. todays workout i'll progress by changing tempo from 3210 to 2112 and i'll change rest time from 60 sec. to 45 sec.

i think awhile ago u mentioned how adding sets is one of the least desired ways or progression....why is that? i mean to a point of course u could overtrain but why would it be least desired when going from maybe 2 sets to 3 sets...?

Look closely at how I set up the progression:
12 reps max at 200 pounds with
60 seconds rest 121

6 rep max at 240 pounds with
120 seconds rest that is a progression with a 424 pace

8 reps at 240 pounds
120 seconds rest at 422 is a reasonable progression, then
120 seconds rest at 222
90 seconds rest at 422
90 seconds rest at 222

A few reasons adding volume is not ideal.
The range of response is very narrow before you are doing more harm than good.
People think if 4 sets is good 12 is better.  It is not.

Going from 2 sets, to 3 is in the narrow range. 
In fact it is like a special change from a very low volume training regimen to a low-medium one.
The growth that can be had from that is fantastic.
Milking the range for all it is worth is important.
The transition from 3 to 4 is low-medium to medium..and again has great potential.
After that, the gains per unit of work tapers off dramatically.

However if you look at page 2 of my journal, you see all the progressions for a year and I comment on the ones that gave the largest gains..and there you will see ways to modify the training resoponse other than adding sets...that still increases the volume.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Look closely at how I set up the progression:
12 reps max at 200 pounds with
60 seconds rest 121

6 rep max at 240 pounds with
120 seconds rest that is a progression with a 424 pace

8 reps at 240 pounds
120 seconds rest at 422 is a reasonable progression, then
120 seconds rest at 222
90 seconds rest at 422
90 seconds rest at 222

why did u post that again? did i show that i wasn't getting something about it in my last post?

ORIGINAL: danmirage
A few reasons adding volume is not ideal.
The range of response is very narrow before you are doing more harm than good.
People think if 4 sets is good 12 is better.  It is not.

Going from 2 sets, to 3 is in the narrow range. 
In fact it is like a special change from a very low volume training regimen to a low-medium one.
The growth that can be had from that is fantastic.
Milking the range for all it is worth is important.
The transition from 3 to 4 is low-medium to medium..and again has great potential.
After that, the gains per unit of work tapers off dramatically.

ok well so far all my sets are between 2-3 so i wont go past 4.
but what happens when i split to an upper/lower split. am i still only going to do a max of 4 sets per muscle per workout? because overall per unit of time (say 10 days) i'd be doing less for the muscle than before. like i thought the point of splitting it up was because adding more in a full body split would take too long and be too much so u split it so u can add another set or 2 per muscle without training too long

ORIGINAL: danmirage

However if you look at page 2 of my journal, you see all the progressions for a year and I comment on the ones that gave the largest gains..and there you will see ways to modify the training resoponse other than adding sets...that still increases the volume.

yea i never saw where u say what all the progressions are but i noticed u showed ur results for a year which i found interesting. it's amazing that u could put on as much as 4-5lb. of LBM in just a week, it seems unreal lol, like u know exactly what to do and when to do it to get the desired results. the gains seem pretty sporadic though.

ok well so far all my sets are between 2-3 so i wont go past 4.
but what happens when i split to an upper/lower split. am i still only going to do a max of 4 sets per muscle per workout? because overall per unit of time (say 10 days) i'd be doing less for the muscle than before. like i thought the point of splitting it up was because adding more in a full body split would take too long and be too much so u split it so u can add another set or 2 per muscle without training too long

There are times when you may go past 4...different routines you can throw in...a drop set for chest, pyramids for back, max power for deaedlifts...All different forms of progression.

Remember to think cyclic..there are Large cycles (Strength, Hypertrophy, Cutting) and smaller cycles within those larger cycles (Strength, Strength-hypertrophy, hypertrophy TypeII, hypertrophy type I, Power, cutting, etc.), and smaller cycles within those (Frequency, type, pace, rest, volume, and intensity variations)...


The reason my gains were not linear was that I travelled a bit in there, also I was doing different programs for a friend to demonstrate that a well trained athlete could still see results, I also went on leaning cycles, and I had a period of little sleep.

The overall annual trend was in the way of gains.  I could gain indefinitely for the most part if I set my mind to it.  Naturally, the closer you get to an assumed genetic peak, the slower the gains...but we rarely ever get near that genetic peak because as we progress it progresses!

Somewhere there is a chart of my gains and the chart is always moving upward...

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

There are times when you may go past 4...different routines you can throw in...a drop set for chest, pyramids for back, max power for deaedlifts...All different forms of progression.

Remember to think cyclic..there are Large cycles (Strength, Hypertrophy, Cutting) and smaller cycles within those larger cycles (Strength, Strength-hypertrophy, hypertrophy TypeII, hypertrophy type I, Power, cutting, etc.), and smaller cycles within those (Frequency, type, pace, rest, volume, and intensity variations)...

ok, i like how its broken up into all the cycles, that makes it pretty easy to see how u could continually change things

but just to be clear about the splitting. i plan to do full body for awhile, changing reps, and doing other forms of progression and eventually getting to 3-4 sets per muscle group (unfortunately at the moment i have to keep it under 45min.
now once i get to those 3-4 sets per muscle group and switch to an upper/lower split i still shouldnt go over 4 sets per muscle (except for the occasional times like dropsets and the other examples u gave) even though its more rest between the same workouts right?

ORIGINAL: danmirage

The overall annual trend was in the way of gains.  I could gain indefinitely for the most part if I set my mind to it.  Naturally, the closer you get to an assumed genetic peak, the slower the gains...but we rarely ever get near that genetic peak because as we progress it progresses!

thats cool, i often hear people talking about there "genetic limit" being so low and i think they're wrong about it most of the time.
how big do u think u could get naturally? (while staling fairly lean)

Hard to say.  The more mass I put on the more I realize I could just keep going.
250 looks easy at 10%  BF
275 might be pretty thick at 10%
300...would be a monster at 10%

even though its more rest between the same workouts right?

changing to a split implies that overall the work you are doing is more.  The nervouse system has to recover from that work.

At the same time, when you break it up, your workout might start much shorter = More recovery!
Over time you have lots of opportunity to train harder.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

changing to a split implies that overall the work you are doing is more.  The nervouse system has to recover from that work.

At the same time, when you break it up, your workout might start much shorter = More recovery!
Over time you have lots of opportunity to train harder.

well thats what im saying, i would think that by splitting it it would allow u to train harder but wouldnt that mean u could/should add more sets? i mean theres the forms of progression we talked about but as u said that doesn't always mean it will be harder and i would think even though u start with only 4 sets per muscle when starting the split u could (and should) go up to about 6 sets if ur doing the same upper/lower 2x a week

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Hard to say.  The more mass I put on the more I realize I could just keep going.
250 looks easy at 10%  BF
275 might be pretty thick at 10%
300...would be a monster at 10%

wow u really think u could get to 300lb. at 10% bf?? that would be crazy, isn't that about what ronnie and jay are at around off season though? i would think u'd need steroids and amazing genetics to get to that point

I said 250 would be easy....I don't know about the others.  Probably just a matter of aplying the time/training/diet/recovery.

Well, that adding sets thing is what screws lots of people. 
If it is not clear how to progress without it, go back and read the conversation all over again...

If you add one more set...as a progression, that should represent a HUGE degree of prorgession and tons of progress already under the bridge.  You should have milked every single ounce of growth.

There is a limit beyond which you are simply not doing positive things for your growth.  It is best to keep that limit further away, the area of dimished returns is not where you want to train.  It is where many many people train.

Looking at the gains I had, at my age, with over 7 years off..with such miniscule training...you should get some idea that maybe it does not take TONs of training to see edequate progress.  In fact it does not.

However, most people possess a very narrow set of tools with which to increase intensity and progressio over time...and so they simply use volume...and they get nowhere fast.

Use volume as the most precious and sparing tool. While it has the ability to give great short term gains and so should be cycled, it has the ability to shut gains down to a trickle.

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ok, i totally get what ur saying about the whole "less is often more" concept. the only thing i guess im wondering is lets just say u get to 4 sets per muscle group 3x a week (full body).

now u switch to an upper/lower split and are still doing 4 sets per muscle group. but now ur only doing it 2x a week for each muscle. since reps, tempo, rest, etc... will only be making those smaller progressions wouldn't this large decrease in overall volume be bad?
u mentioned you'd be able to train harder, do u mean because ur getting more rest between workouts once u split it? i looked in ur journal and it seems like thats the basic principle when u switched to a split and still made progress

i mean i understand what to do at this point, i would just like to fully understand that particular part of the concept.

More rest means more recovery of very important growth factors.

Harder training means stimulation of very important growth factors.

So, whenever you change the routine to allow harder training (since your time is effectively less, you tend to work with greater intensity) and more recovery...you tap these two concepts.

On the flip side you also want to change the routine to include more training cycles in a week to maximise the recovery cycles..

Last comment here is that some people respond more to more rest and others respond to more training frequency....so there is no one perfect solution for everyone.  You shift along this continuum of responding to more rest, or more intensity, or more training over time.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Last comment here is that some people respond more to more rest and others respond to more training frequency....so there is no one perfect solution for everyone.  You shift along this continuum of responding to more rest, or more intensity, or more training over time.

yea i can't seem to find what im responding best to. my best gains are always in completely different routines for a little while and then stop

ugh.....i just weighed in today and according to calipers and everything i gained 1.78lb. of fat and gained .22lb. of muscle, bodyfat went up .97%!
how is that possible? i lost 3/4lb. with last weeks calories, then increased by 260 calories and somehow gained about 2lb. with it pretty much all fat! my diet was 100%, my sleep was good for the most part, my training followed progression (shown here in my journal http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/David1991s_workout_log/m_347311/tm.htm the link needs to be copied and pasted for some reason)
idk what the problem is....

You gained muscle.
You gained weight.
So calories are fine.

You are abviously still settling.

Go another week and see.
It is not simple to get things under control at first.

Don't sweat it.  Just keep going forward.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

You gained muscle.
You gained weight.
So calories are fine.

actually....i just took measurements and weight today and since its a full week from last week its the one i take down for results.
i've gained 1.8lb. of fat and lost .3lb. of muscle.......

ORIGINAL: danmirage

You are abviously still settling.

Go another week and see.
It is not simple to get things under control at first.

Don't sweat it.  Just keep going forward.

yea im trying to stay motivated and keep pushing but its hard when it just keeps getting worse like this, i mean compared to 5 weeks ago i have almost 4lb. more fat and 1lb less muscle.

todays workout im gonna switch to the 6-8 rep range since ive been doing around 9-12 for 2 weeks. hopefully the change will be good (except since i was going to failure those 9-12 reps sometimes would drop as low as 6 anyway so idk if the change will be that drastic)

Also, do u feel programs that start at a lower weight and build up to ur rep max over the course of 6 full body workouts (2 weeks, like HST) are bad? and if so why? i see that common "theme" with a lot of hypertrophy routines.

HST changes multiple variables per workout and has a specific recovery and specific cycle concepts within it (if done as intended.)
That is the general description of a Well designed routine.

HST and 3-days a week are routines I list in the gaining mass thread because they demonstrate this multi-variable manipulation concept.
There are unlimited ways to manipulate this.

You should be very clear that your immediate caliper measuerments DO NOT MEAN YOU GAINED OR LOST muscle or fat.
They are simply for comparative measurements.

gained  1.78lb. of fat and gained .22lb (gain 2 pounds)
to
gained 1.8lb. of fat and lost .3lb (gain 1.5 pounds)

So you think in one day you lost .5 pounds?

The point here is that in these last weeks have you been on a new diet?
Didn't I tell you that you needed to no worry about the specifics that you see because your body was goign to be all over the place?

You say in 5 weeks you gained 4lb. fat and lost 1lb muscle.

You are still gaining weight.
So changing your routine makes sense.

Look at your recovery, look at the quality of your training.
Also look at your diet to see if it is "dirty" somewhere important.
Are you gettting enough vegetables?

Finally stop worrying so much.  Muscles gain fast enough.  If you are only down a pound, then that is 4 days of good training/recovery.  It is nothing.  4 pounds of fat is also just 2-3 weeks of goods training.

You have had a week off of training in the last 10 weeks?
I forget...

IF the trend continues, I would alter the routine in a larger way.
Such as doing this every other week
Back/chest/bi/tri/shoulder/quad/ham/calf
For 12-15 reps t-day 1 / then  9-12 reps t-day 2/ then 4-8 reps t-day 3
Major movements.  One exercise per bodypart 3 sets.  Different movements each day.

Interspersed with something different. That varies as well.

Have you looked at the 3-day training to see how it changes from day to day and week to week?
It is a good example of simple multi-variable manipulations.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

You should be very clear that your immediate caliper measuerments DO NOT MEAN YOU GAINED OR LOST muscle or fat.
They are simply for comparative measurements.

gained  1.78lb. of fat and gained .22lb (gain 2 pounds)
to
gained 1.8lb. of fat and lost .3lb (gain 1.5 pounds)

So you think in one day you lost .5 pounds?

no i was thinking i just lost the .3 lb. of muscle because that measurement was taken on the same day as the previous week. i've seen how it can fluctuate daily but usually theres a general pattern and this week was high fat gain and no muscle gain.

ORIGINAL: danmirage
The point here is that in these last weeks have you been on a new diet?
Didn't I tell you that you needed to no worry about the specifics that you see because your body was goign to be all over the place?

You say in 5 weeks you gained 4lb. fat and lost 1lb muscle.

You are still gaining weight.
So changing your routine makes sense.

Look at your recovery, look at the quality of your training.
Also look at your diet to see if it is "dirty" somewhere important.
Are you gettting enough vegetables?

Finally stop worrying so much.  Muscles gain fast enough.  If you are only down a pound, then that is 4 days of good training/recovery.  It is nothing.  4 pounds of fat is also just 2-3 weeks of goods training.

well 4 days of good training is a lb. of muscle and 4lb. of fat is 2-3 weeks optimally. but i dont seem to be getting anywhere near optimal results even with the right training, diet, etc...
im not trying to say that like "oh i have it so hard its not fair" im just saying what i've seen happening with me and my results

ORIGINAL: danmirage
You have had a week off of training in the last 10 weeks?
I forget...

IF the trend continues, I would alter the routine in a larger way.
Such as doing this every other week
Back/chest/bi/tri/shoulder/quad/ham/calf
For 12-15 reps t-day 1 / then  9-12 reps t-day 2/ then 4-8 reps t-day 3
Major movements.  One exercise per bodypart 3 sets.  Different movements each day.
Interspersed with something different. That varies as well.
Have you looked at the 3-day training to see how it changes from day to day and week to week?
It is a good example of simple multi-variable manipulations.

i took a week off 5 weeks ago (jan 12-19)

i just read the the 3-day routine u talked about. i like how its set up. and how its all planned out for exactly what i have to do.

1. do u think it would be wise to start that routine next workout? i was going to try an approach like HST and as i said i switched to the 6 rep range today but if going to that 3-day routine is a good idea in ur opinion i'll do it. (plus switching from my workout today to that seems like it would be a pretty large progression since hst starts light [which is what i was going to do] and that workout goes to failure on the last sets of each exercise and switches things up a lot)

2. "6) Increase the load 1.25 to 2.5% with each subsequent workout."

what exactly does he mean by that? im sure he doesn't mean the workout right after the one before because the reps often go up and if ur going to failure with 3x8 at a certain weight u wouldnt be able to increase weight for 3x12 2 days later

HST you need to read the instructions very carefully.

If your results are stagnated, you want to change things up because what you are doing may not be right for stimulating a response.
you should note that the first 4 weeks of any new progression may not be ideal...
Lots of people jump from progression to progression before really seeing any results.

Remember, your body was primed for protein wasting.
You need to keep your mind positive to keep the "bad" hormones away!

How is your energy, focus, training intensity, mood, sleep?

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• Repetitions will decrease every 2 weeks in the following order: 15 reps for 2 weeks Þ 10 reps for 2 weeks Þ 5 reps for 2 weeks Þ then continue with your 5 rep max for 2 weeks or begin 2 weeks of negatives. 15¹s can be skipped when you are about to start over after the first 8 week cycle. If you are feeling strain-type injuries coming on don't skip the 15s.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

HST you need to read the instructions very carefully.

If your results are stagnated, you want to change things up because what you are doing may not be right for stimulating a response.
you should note that the first 4 weeks of any new progression may not be ideal...
Lots of people jump from progression to progression before really seeing any results.

yea i think that could be a problem, i was too quick to thing about starting different routines. i wasn't thinking clearly about sticking to a routine for a long time because i kept hearing more and more about how one should change often.

basically what i did today for my workout was what was going to be the first of a "6 rep cycle" of HST training principles for 2 weeks. so each muscle was basically 2x6 or 3x6 and i was going to add 2.5-5lb. the next 5 workouts along with tempo changes.
at this point would u reccomend me starting the 3-day routine by chad waterbury on tuesday or continuing with the 6 rep range HST then taking a week off (if necessary) and starting up again with hst at 15 reps?

ORIGINAL: danmirage

How is your energy, focus, training intensity, mood, sleep?

energy: normal, ive been taking naps most days if i got tired
focus: good
training intensity: pretty high
mood: fine except when i think about spanish class lol
sleep: usually about 7.5 hours a night and then the occasional nap

thinking back about it i could be stressed more than that since im constantly thinking about bodybuilding, my results, etc...idk if thats necessarily a bad thing though.

anyway so i workout again tuesday
"basically what i did yesterday for my workout was what was going to be the first of a "6 rep cycle" of HST training principles for 2 weeks (so it was considerably light since it was the first one). each muscle was basically 2x6 or 3x6 and i was going to add 2.5-5lb. the next 5 workouts along with tempo changes.

at this point would u reccomend me starting the 3-day routine by chad waterbury on tuesday or continuing with the 6 rep range HST then taking a week off (if necessary) and starting up again with hst at 15 reps?"

oh and also

2. "6) Increase the load 1.25 to 2.5% with each subsequent workout."

what exactly does he mean by that? im sure he doesn't mean the workout right after the one before because the reps often go up and if ur going to failure with 3x8 at a certain weight u wouldnt be able to increase weight for 3x12 2 days later

2. "6) Increase the load 1.25 to 2.5% with each subsequent workout."

You need to read the whole thing.  you seem to have missed all the important information, such as how th whole program is structured:

• Repetitions will decrease every 2 weeks in the following order: 15 reps for 2 weeks Þ 10 reps for 2 weeks Þ 5 reps for 2 weeks Þ then continue with your 5 rep max for 2 weeks or begin 2 weeks of negatives. 15¹s can be skipped when you are about to start over after the first 8 week cycle. If you are feeling strain-type injuries coming on don't skip the 15s.

Read every page through to the last.  These programs have lots of details and it is important to grasp them to get the benefit, otherwise you sat you are doing HST but you are really just doing your own thing.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

2. "6) Increase the load 1.25 to 2.5% with each subsequent workout."

You need to read the whole thing.  you seem to have missed all the important information, such as how th whole program is structured:

• Repetitions will decrease every 2 weeks in the following order: 15 reps for 2 weeks Þ 10 reps for 2 weeks Þ 5 reps for 2 weeks Þ then continue with your 5 rep max for 2 weeks or begin 2 weeks of negatives. 15¹s can be skipped when you are about to start over after the first 8 week cycle. If you are feeling strain-type injuries coming on don't skip the 15s.

Read every page through to the last.  These programs have lots of details and it is important to grasp them to get the benefit, otherwise you sat you are doing HST but you are really just doing your own thing.

i may be missing something...i did read through all of the HST pages and the 3-day routine page.

for your bolded sentence i assume ur trying to say that i can't really start an HST routine in the 6 rep range?

about the load question im not understanding it. i read it but i need clarification on what he means. he says
6) Increase the load 1.25 to 2.5% with each subsequent workout.
im not understanding that, maybe im misinterpreting "subsequent"? i would normally take that to mean increase by 1.25-2.5% each workout but as i said the rep ranges change each time so im sure he doesn't mean that.
does he mean increase by that much with each lift the following week when u do it pairing with the antagonist muscles?
and those pairing aren't supersets right? he just says to pair them.

That entire paragraph is a quote from HST.

If you do not recall reading that, if you did not see that the progression goes from HIGH reps to LOW reps then you have not read the entire description.  Reading it entirely will answer the questions you pose.

for your bolded sentence i assume ur trying to say that i can't really start an HST routine in the 6 rep range?

Then its not HST is it...
HST is a planned progam with a specific set of progressions and phases.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

That entire paragraph is a quote from HST.

If you do not recall reading that, if you did not see that the progression goes from HIGH reps to LOW reps then you have not read the entire description.  Reading it entirely will answer the questions you pose.

for your bolded sentence i assume ur trying to say that i can't really start an HST routine in the 6 rep range?

Then its not HST is it...
HST is a planned progam with a specific set of progressions and phases.

i know its from hst and i read through all of it. i guess i wasn't considering that it had to start at 15 since i was already doing lower reps than that and i was planning on following the principles except starting lower, clearly thats not a good idea lol.

could u answer the other questions though? about the 3-day routine by C.W.? thats my main confusion right now. this part:
about the load question im not understanding it. i read it but i need clarification on what he means. he says
6) Increase the load 1.25 to 2.5% with each subsequent workout.
im not understanding that, maybe im misinterpreting "subsequent"? i would normally take that to mean increase by 1.25-2.5% each workout but as i said the rep ranges change each time so im sure he doesn't mean that.
does he mean increase by that much with each lift the following week when u do it pairing with the antagonist muscles?
and those pairing aren't supersets right? he just says to pair them.

so once thats cleared up i'll understand how to go through that program when i follow it since i understand the rest of what he's saying, and it looks really good because it changes things up often, along with adding weight, and goes to failure on the last set.

but considering what i did saturday (6 rep range but considerably light because of my bad idea of starting "hst" lower) would it be best to start the routine by C.W. on tuesday? since it couldnt really be hst at this point and the C.W. one looks like a pretty solid program

Note that the rest length is INCREASING.
This is paired with the resistance INCREASING.

This is not a mistake.

If you want to kick over to 3-day and then break and then try HST then break..that sounds fine...

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