Anabolic Diet
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 Anabolic Diet

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ranger20

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Wednesday, June 04, 2008 6:14 PM

ORIGINAL: David1991


ORIGINAL: ranger20

it a good diet for cutting, i didnt like it for bulking as much.  only thing i didnt like about it was it caused my face to breakout.  i imagine it was b/c of the amount of fat raising natural test.


same with me unfortunately. thats why im hesitant to try it again. i'm on solodyn but i dont think thats strong enough to keep me from breaking out again. and either way i'd have to deal with oily skin

so u did it for bulking and cutting in the past?

 
yes.  the last time i used it i was bulking.  i was skeptical(sp?) of using for bulking b/c of the low carbs.  but it worked decently, i had fairly similar gains as you did. gained around 11lbs of lbm and 4lbs of fat (if i remember correctly).  either way you look at it you are getting enough calories to build muscle whether there are carbs or not.  it just made my face breakout like crazy (much worse than cutting phase) , and i felt like i wasn't quite as strong because of the lack of carbs...maybe that was just in my mind though.
David1991

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:32 AM
i dont remember feeling any lack of strength. i liked that i had a pretty constant level of energy, not much drops or anything. maybe the acne wont be as bad if i started with a more moderate calorie approach....i wish i was on accutane, that would definitely stop any from coming.
 
i want to give this diet another try over the summer but i dont see when i'm going to be able unfortunately
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Jrrcsava1

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:55 AM
Why are you all saying it makes you break out? How does fat intake affect acne? Cuz my adolescent acne has just left and i really dont wanna coax it back.
 
Also, if the idea is 60/35/5 i am wondering how you are supposed to take in sixty percent fat eating meat...i mean i know some meat can be fatty but that is a s***load of fat. how did you all go about accomplishing this? Can someone post an example meal plan from when they were on it so i can get a better idea of what exactly this diet entails. thanks!
 
Finally, what kinda nonsense did you have to deal with regarding your GI tract. This would also be another major concern of mine.
David1991

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:59 AM

ORIGINAL: Jrrcsava1

Why are you all saying it makes you break out? How does fat intake affect acne? Cuz my adolescent acne has just left and i really dont wanna coax it back.

Also, if the idea is 60/35/5 i am wondering how you are supposed to take in sixty percent fat eating meat...i mean i know some meat can be fatty but that is a s***load of fat. how did you all go about accomplishing this? Can someone post an example meal plan from when they were on it so i can get a better idea of what exactly this diet entails. thanks!

Finally, what kinda nonsense did you have to deal with regarding your GI tract. This would also be another major concern of mine.

 
 The extra oil/fat intake can make ur skin really oily and cause acne, also the diet is supposed to raise hormones which will also cause more acne.
As far as the fat it’s not supposed to come from fat. If it did the majority of it would be saturated fat which u only want about 33% of total fat intake to be. Get the rest from nuts, oils, etc…
And as far as I remember I didn’t have an GI tract problems
 
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edrice2

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:18 PM
i didnt do the anabolic diet, i did toil with keto for a month or two? it had its pros, definitatly kept a constant energy flow, but it did seem to directly effect my performance lifting negatively.  basicaly, i felt energy levels were fine, but the extra push wasnt there for me lifting.
 
it gave me diarrhea for a day, thats its. no acne for me.
 
after awhile tho i got bad carb cravings, so i stopped since my strength wasnt increasing
 
i did lose like 3 or so lbs presmably water weight right away and you can tell and look leaner.
 
didnt take measurements but appeared to look leaner even after just the water loss, dont remmber my weight changes but i could find them somewhere.
 
for me, i dont see a point unless its for a serious reason. ketos a rather socially limitng diet that has to be adhered to and takes too much effort without good reason imo.
 
for some the results seem to be good, like dapunisher among others. maybe try it and see if its your thing
bulking/strength training

soon to begin bill starr's 5X5

current maxes: 
squats: 255
deadlifts: 300
bench: 185
oh press: 125
goals for jan 1:
squats: 300
deadlifts: 350
bench: 210
oh pressL 145 
Jrrcsava1

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:41 PM



for me, i dont see a point unless its for a serious reason. ketos a rather socially limitng diet that has to be adhered to and takes too much effort without good reason imo.


 
How so? I would think that this diet would be much easier than your average bulking diet?
 
 
I know its asking a lot. But if anyone has a sample meal plan that they used or its basic construction written up that they would like to share that would be awesome.
edrice2

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 5:54 PM
in that you will be hard pressed to ad lib anything and woudl need to always have meals with you more than on a more typical diet. its not that its not possible or anything.
 
its theoretical simple to follow, but doesnt necesarrily translate into an easier diet to follow imo.
 
im thinking more in terms of social situations, like restaurants or just being out w friends. i found myself limited by what i could take with me, since a lot of stuff is cooked like meat, etc. theres options, but much less than a typical diet. also, ive gotten equal results and better form a normal diet. then again i didnt use it get super cut or anything, maybe then itd be worth it if youre real driven to do so.
 
the biggest thing for me was it was negatively effecting strength, or at least i didnt make gains i dont think i lost any tho. the slight inconveniene factor i mentioend was just a side thing.
bulking/strength training

soon to begin bill starr's 5X5

current maxes: 
squats: 255
deadlifts: 300
bench: 185
oh press: 125
goals for jan 1:
squats: 300
deadlifts: 350
bench: 210
oh pressL 145 
MikeMahony

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:21 PM

ORIGINAL: edrice2

in that you will be hard pressed to ad lib anything and woudl need to always have meals with you more than on a more typical diet. its not that its not possible or anything.

its theoretical simple to follow, but doesnt necesarrily translate into an easier diet to follow imo.

im thinking more in terms of social situations, like restaurants or just being out w friends. i found myself limited by what i could take with me, since a lot of stuff is cooked like meat, etc. theres options, but much less than a typical diet. also, ive gotten equal results and better form a normal diet. then again i didnt use it get super cut or anything, maybe then itd be worth it if youre real driven to do so.

the biggest thing for me was it was negatively effecting strength, or at least i didnt make gains i dont think i lost any tho. the slight inconveniene factor i mentioend was just a side thing.


While I can see alot of what you are saying, I wonder if you've read The Anabolic Solution by Mauro Di Pasquale, M.D.?  This is where the Anabolic Diet (now called the Metabolic Diet) comes from.  To me, it seems like this type of diet is even easier to follow than most.  Dr. Di Pasquale suggests that you go through a phase where you determine your optimal carb level.  He suggests extremely low carb, but agrees that different people have differing levels of carbs they need and so he allows for that type of adjustment in the program.  You have to understand that the goal of the Anabolic Diet is to make natural metabolic changes in your body that approximate the benefits received from taking steroids.  The diet was introduced to give powerlifters a chance to try something other than steroids.

There are 3 priorities to this program:

1.  Switch your metabolism to burning fat as its primary fuel.  This is done by liminting carbs and providing an ample amount of dietary fat.  You do not change your caloric intake during the first phase of the program.  You just substitute protein and fat for your former carb calories.

2.  Once fat adapted, you vary your calories to suit the goal you have (bulk, cut or maintain).

3.  If you want to cut, you slowly lower your calories and at the same time you lower your fat intake.  Your body is now fat adapted and will burn fat and not muscle for its energy.

Your sources of fat would be essential and monosaturated fatty acids. 

The claim is that this diet works because you train your body to burn fat instead of carbs.

Once fat adapted, your body continues to favor fat for energy even as you lower your calories.

I don't think you have it right about the cooked meats, etc.  The idea is to have protein.  This can be in the form of chicken, beef, fish, etc. 

I recently tried the Velocity Diet (in modified form) and found the high protein and low carb program to be very beneficial.  I am considering the Anabolic Diet as a longer term solution to my carb sensitivity.  Right now I'm researching and reading and asking others who have tried it how their experience was.  The final decision will be made later.

PS:  The increased fat is going to increase testosterone, which should aid in building muscle and strength.  I can only imagine what will happen on this diet because on the Velocity Diet, I gained a fair share of LBM and lost a fair share of fat (4% in 4 weeks).  With the added fat I'm sure I would gain even more LBM, but I might not lose as much body fat UNLESS the science on this is correct and your body really does burn more fat in this situation.
<message edited by MikeMahony on Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:23 PM>
Just completed a 12 week High Intensity Training program.  52% average increase in weight lifted for each exercise.  Up 12 lbs. body weight, down 1.78% body fat for an increase of 14.02 lbs. LBM and a decrease of 2.02 lbs. of fat. 
Jrrcsava1

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:26 PM
Not sure if you did this...but would you recommend buying this Dr. P somethings book?
5'11"
170lbs
9% body fat
Bench 240lbs
Squat (ATG) 330
edrice2

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 6:41 PM
i havent read the book, i didnt try the anabolic diet, just a general keto diet.
 
i didnt mean you literally had to prepare full cooked meats every 3 hours per se, i meant that you will have to carry around meat to some extent, more so, which will take more dedication. not the biggest point of what i was talking about tho.
 
my point, was basically to not just jump into keto without realizing the extent to which youl have to be prepared, and, if you want to keep doing it for a long time, its a pretty big lifestyle change imo. people shoudl realize that before starting it is all.
bulking/strength training

soon to begin bill starr's 5X5

current maxes: 
squats: 255
deadlifts: 300
bench: 185
oh press: 125
goals for jan 1:
squats: 300
deadlifts: 350
bench: 210
oh pressL 145 
MikeMahony

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Thursday, June 05, 2008 7:24 PM
I guess that's why I responded to your post in the first place.  I have been doing the standard 50/30/20 ratio and that requires me to carry around chicken, tuna, etc. so I guess I'm not seeing carrying around meat as dedication.  However, after experiencing the Velocity Diet, I can agree with you that it is hard to be spontaneous.  And when everyone else is eating a nice meal and you can't indulge, that can be very hard on the psyche.
 
I am currently reading the book written by Dr. Di Pasquale.  Very interesting reading.
 
I agree with your assessment that people should not just jump into things like this.  It takes research and understanding.  Without that, stick to the "norm".
Just completed a 12 week High Intensity Training program.  52% average increase in weight lifted for each exercise.  Up 12 lbs. body weight, down 1.78% body fat for an increase of 14.02 lbs. LBM and a decrease of 2.02 lbs. of fat. 
dapunisher

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Friday, June 06, 2008 4:59 AM
I've modified the keto diet to fit me and have been on it since April 2007.
I don't think I will ever go off this diet as it is giving me constant strength and mass gains.
 
Not only that it has made my HDL go up a lot. I recently had blood work done. I will find the paper today and post it in my journal.
 
When I first started this diet it was hard cause of obvious carb cravings... but after you fight through it for the first two to three months then you are good. It is like fighting the cravings to not eat pizza etc which I've been clean for since Sept 2005!
 
I'm sure if it weren't for this diet I wouldn't be able to control the cravings for "bad" food.
Failure isn't falling down... it's staying down.
David1991

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Friday, June 06, 2008 10:52 AM
dapunisher can u give what ur diet is? i'd like to see how you've modified it from a normal keto diet
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dapunisher

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Friday, June 06, 2008 11:31 AM
Monday - Friday (workout days):
Pre workout/breakfast:
3/4 cup Oatmeal
1 scoop Whey
 
Post workout:
2 scoop Whey
7 Tsp. Dextrose
 
Breakfast # 2:
Chicken
Almonds
 
Lunch # 1:
Chicken
Almonds
 
Lunch # 2:
Chicken
Almonds
 
Dinner # 1:
Chicken
Almonds
 
Dinner # 2:
Cottage Cheese
Peanut Butter
Almonds
 
Weekends/Rest days:
Breakfast # 1:
Chicken
Peanut Butter
Bread
 
Lunch # 1:
Chicken
Almonds
 
Lunch # 2:
Chicken
Peanut Butter
Bread
 
Dinner # 1:
Chicken
Almonds
 
Dinner # 2:
Cottage Cheese
Peanut Butter
Almonds
 
 
On workout days I take around 80-90g carbs and on weekends carbs around 100g.
It's kind of like TKD instead taking in carbs on rest days also but not hugh amounts.
Failure isn't falling down... it's staying down.
David1991

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RE: Keto/Anabolic Diet - Friday, June 06, 2008 11:45 AM
it seems somewhat similar to what i was thinking about but not exactly.

i was thinking of having something like 50g of carbs around my workout but keeping them as low as possible on rest days. then having one day of carbing up.   also the leaner u are the more carbs u should be having so i guess might start with 3 carb up meals and if i get leaner then go up to a full day depending on if i can get lean enough.

maybe i'll just keep the carbs around my workout though and not carb up.

so ur only eating 3 meals now? i cant tell if u meal #1 and #2 as different options or that u have each of them each day
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