Am I on the right track?
Author  
Discuss Bodybuilding

  • Total Posts : 5274
  • Reward points : 0
  • Joined: 6/20/2003
  • Status: online
 

Prev Thread Prev Thread   Next Thread Next Thread

 Am I on the right track?

Author Message
CrimsonFury

  • Total Posts : 10
  • Reward points : 10
  • Joined: 1/30/2006
  • Status: offline
Am I on the right track? - Monday, January 30, 2006 1:24 PM
Hi guys and gals!
 
I have been body building for about 3 years now.  I am 5'11 and went from about 150 lbs with 19% body fat to 185 lbs with 8% body fat (when I'm cut).  I went from being able to bench 135 lbs to 295 lbs.  So I think I'm doing great.  But I want to do better.  I'll break down what I do and let you guys give me some pointers as to what I do well and what I could improve upon.
 
Routine:
 
I work out 3 times a week with a buddy and we go to lift heavy.  We isolate our chest and back on mondays, legs and shoulders on wednesdays and biceps and triceps on thursdays.  We do all our sets as pyramid sets (first set as warmup, second is fairly heavy, third is overload, fourth is fairly heavy, fith as a rep-down).  When we do our overload set, it is basically a weight I cannot do on my own and sometimes cannot lift at all.  But I will try to lift as best I can with my spotter helping as minimal as he needs.  I also can usually get the negative on my own.  I would usually get 2 reps out of this.  We also change what workouts we do every 3 months or so to keep it fresh.   I go onto a bulking routine from september to the end of january, eating lots, warm up cardio only and lifting heavy and hard.  In february I start cutting, by still lifting heavy, eating about 500 calories less per day and an hour of cardio 4 days a week.
 
Supplements:
 
Currently I take:
 
2 capsules of HMB in the morning
1 capsule of EFX Kre-Alkalyn (works amazing by the way) in the morning
 
1 Capsule of EFX Kre-Alkalyn 30 minutes before workout
1 scoop of GAKIC 30 minutes before workout
2 capsules of HMB 30 minutes before workout
 
1 scoop Allmax Nutrition ISO-Flex Whey protein after workout
1 scoop Allmax L-Glutemine after workout
 
Nutrition:
 
This is maybe where I need the most help.  I just try to eat a well balanced diet, with a little more emphasis on protein throughout the day.  For example I would eat a bran muffin with milk in the morning, a can of tunu on the later morning.  A turkey breast sandwich with lettuce and tomato on whole wheat, with apple juice, celery and carrots for lunch.  I would eat some fruit (apple, bannana or orange) later in the afternoon.  For dinner (about 2 hours before workout) I would eat a typical dinner with some portions of carbs (rice, pasta patatoes), a portion of meat (lean, chicken, pork or fish) and some portions of veggies (corn, peas, carrots, etc.).  This is about it.  I just control my portions based on whether or not I'm bulking or cutting.
 
Let me know if all looks good and give me any pointers you can think of!!
Dan
-----------------------------------
5'11
180 lbs.
8-9 % bf.
Bench 295 lbs.
danmirage

  • Total Posts : 6098
  • Reward points : 10
  • Joined: 11/20/2005
  • Status: offline
RE: Am I on the right track? - Monday, January 30, 2006 2:06 PM
Dan...what do you WANT...to get bigger?
 
Diet is 88% of your results and yours is not where it needs to be.
 
There are alot of intensity principles that you can toy with other than the 3 you mention (pyramid sets,  overload, rep-down)  you might want to spice up a bit.
 
Some discussion threads on varying intensity...
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_87226/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#87256
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_93729/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#94183

Keep the workouts under an hour!!!
 
Do you take a week off of training in there?  That is a key factor!  Every 12 weeks at the longest!
 
Now I am going to lay the diet spiel on you!
But first...a focus on protein is not going to cut it when bulking!
 
First and foremost is your diet.
That is 88% of your mass gains. 
500 cals over your needs will get you 1 pound a week...if you need more, some will likely be fat...so you have to decide what weight you want to gain...some needs to be fat anyway, just decide how much you want by how much you gain per week!

Ideal caloric balance ranges for optimal growth:
Protein-15-30%,
carbohydrates-40-75%,
fat-10-30%

The ideal range of protein for growth is .6-.9 grams per pound of body weight.
If you are a light eater and meats sit like a brick in your tummy then go for the lower part of the range. 
If you enjoy meats and could eat them many times in the day, and they give you energy...go for the higher end.
Target the fat % on the scale proportionate with the protein. Then inversely proportion the carbs to the protein.

I.E. The moderate protein type=
Protein-20%,
carbohydrates-65%,
fat-15%

Do you know your caloric target? 
Go here to read up on this:
Caloric calculator  <---- link to click
there is a spreadsheet/calculator linked at the bottom of the post.  Use the appropriate column!

You can go to fitday.com and use their free journal as a planner and create a menu of foods that fulfills your needs.
 
Once your diet and training are in place, measure your body composition and go a week following your plan. 

At the end of the week (and each week) check your body composition again - always at the same time of day
with the same method and tools. 
---If at first you are just gaining fat, then revamp your training it is obviously not sufficient to create muscle gains, also look at adjusting your caloric intake and nutrient balance.
--If you are just losing fat go another week as is.
--If you are just gaining muscle go another week as is, muscle burns fat and will speed your loss later.
--If you are gaining fat and muscle, you can drop calories 250 or add a bit of cardio...depends on what your level of cardio is to begin.
--If you are gaining muscle and losing fat...you are at an optimal balance.

Get it now?
 


I start cutting, by still lifting heavy, eating about 500 calories less per day and an hour of cardio 4 days a week.

Oh boy.  In short...DO THE LEAST amount of change to get the results you want!
So when you first start the cut do 3 days at 20-30 minutes cardio...
 

The things to vary every 2-3 weeks or so or as needed - in order of "importance":

The the intensity of your training...slower/low intensity, moderate speed and intensity, high speed and intensity, intervals
The type of exercise you do...bike, rowing, elliptical trainer, swimming, walking, etc
The length of time you train...from 20 minutes, to 30 minutes, to 40 minutes, to 50 m.
The frequency with which you train...3 days a week, to 4 days a week, to 5 days a week, to 2x day 3 days a week


Some notes about this...change your frequency only as a last resort!!!  The more frequently you do cardio, the quicker the body adapts and the LESS you get from it!!!!!

Be sure you have good pre and post workout nutrition to support muscle sparing!  You want to keep that muscle to burn that fat!

Be sure to take 1 full week at least every 3 months doing NOTHING!!!  In addition to other benefits, this de-conditions the body so that when you come back your body is more responsive again.  When you come back, start your training at 30 minutes 3x week and moderate intensity with a new type of cardio.

Then increase the intensity (2-3 weeks), then try interval training (2-3 weeks), then switch the type of cardio and start the new type at moderate (2-3 weeks), then high (2-3 weeks), then intervals (2-3 weeks), then switch and repeat.  Then add 10 minutes and go 40 at moderate (2-3 weeks), then high (2-3 weeks), then intervals (2-3 weeks).

After 3 months...REST and come back and repeat the pattern.

IF after 1-2 weeks you are not seeing any loss of body fat weight, you may need more time.  If you still see nothing, you may need another day.

You also may need more nutrition to feed growing muscle.  Your body fat is good for the energy needs of the body, but will not fulfill the body's basic nutrient needs.

Remember the underlying goal:
Keep the body unaccustomed to the training
 
By the way when you say:

EFX Kre-Alkalyn (works amazing by the way)

Works amazing to do what...what are you basing this on...so I know what you are experiencing!
CrimsonFury

  • Total Posts : 10
  • Reward points : 10
  • Joined: 1/30/2006
  • Status: offline
RE: Am I on the right track? - Tuesday, January 31, 2006 6:39 AM
Hi Dan,

Thanks for the reply.  It is very much appreciated.  My goal is to get bigger and more lean mucle mass.  I'd love to weigh 200 lbs. at 8% body fat.

As for the routine, I do follow all of those intensity principals and I do change them and the actual workouts up every 3 months or so to keep the muscles guessing.  So as for the routine, I think I have that down.  I should try to keep the workouts under an hour.  Sometimes I do, but sometimes it seems I need longer rests and I go over by 20 minutes.  As for taking a week off, I do do that, but I'm very sporadic about it.  I need to be on more of a schedule when I do that.  So I can improve that as well.

As for the diet, I follow you on that one.  The only problem is, is that I have no idea what to eat, and how much to eat of what.  I just try to emphasize on protein and carbs when bulking (carbs provide the calories and other nutrients to put on weight) and the protein is quite obvious.  And then I simply fill the void with as much vegtables and fruit as I can. And then eat similarly when cutting but just lower the carb percentage a bit.  The problem is, I cannot afford to eat a fancy bodybuilders diet, and since I feed a family, I need to try and make my diet as 'normal' as possible.  With that said, I still think it is possible to eat a good diet for bodybuilding while maintaining normalicy.  I just have no idea where to start.

My caloric intake requirements are approx 2780 calories per day to break even.

I guess I should start reading the back of the boxes to calculate protien, carbs and fat % througout my day to make sure everything is level.

As for cutting, you bring up a good point about varying things up.  I usually just start my cardio off by doing 60 minutes a day for 4 days a week right off the bat.  I also usually stick to the eliptical trainer and rarely ever use anything else.  It seems when I do this, I start off by loosing a lot of weight right off the bat and for the first 2 months or so, but then the effectiveness seems to wear off.  I think I need to try your approach to keeping things different.  So an example of a 3 month period of cardio should look like this:

2 weeks - treadmill - 3 days - 30 minutes - moderate intensity
2 weeks - treadmill - 3 days - 30 minutes - high intensity
2 weeks - treadmill - 3 days - 40 minutes - high intensity
2 weeks - eliptical - 3 days - 40 minutes - moderate intensity
2 weeks - eliptical - 3 days - 40 minutes - high intensity
2 weeks - eliptical - 3 days - 50 minutes - high intensity

etc. etc.  and after 3 months, 1 week off. and repeat.  Now would I reset the intervals every time I switch type of cardio or would I simply keep gradually increasing as I have displayed above?

What are some examples of things I should be eating before and after working out when bulking and cutting.  I have no clue.

The Kre-Alkalyn works amazing as in, I used to use creatine monohydrate powder and it worked ok.  I found it made me feel sick a lot, and gave me diahrea often.  I always drank it with grape juice.  I did however notice it working.  I switched to Kre-Alkalyn directly from creatine powder and I lost the bloat (well most of it), I lost the sickness feeling and diahrea and I noticed a fairly significant increase in strentgh and explosiveness when lifting over regular creatine powder.  I wonder if my body was just not absorbing the regular creatine well.  Not sure.

Thanks for your help!
<message edited by CrimsonFury on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 6:44 AM>
Dan
-----------------------------------
5'11
180 lbs.
8-9 % bf.
Bench 295 lbs.
danmirage

  • Total Posts : 6098
  • Reward points : 10
  • Joined: 11/20/2005
  • Status: offline
RE: Am I on the right track? - Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:14 AM

Sometimes I do, but sometimes it seems I need longer rests and I go over by 20 minutes.

40 minutes is optimal...so maybe you need to break the workouts up a bit?  OR get nutritional supprt at the 40 minute ark to keep the body from destroying muscle!!!


My caloric intake requirements are approx 2780 calories per day to break even.


So you are at a 3000-3200 caloric level for optimal gains. 
You only have 15 pounds to gain to be at 200 so that is nothing!


What are some examples of things I should be eating before and after working out when bulking adn cutting

You can use this as a pre and post w/o for increased muscle retention 30 min before and after:
.2 gm/lb body weight high GI carbs (OJ for instance)
.1 gm/lb body weight whey protein (or takea total of 15g BCAA)
 
You can also sip this at th 40 minute mark if you are going over time!!!


I have no idea what to eat


3000 calories divided by 5 is 600 calories...

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/My_3000_calorie_menu_plan/m_91155/tm.htm
This was my diet at 3000 calories and 3500
Cost was 10$ a day for 90% organic
Time to prepare is minimal.  I cook most everything on 1 day, 1 or 2 times a week. 
Measure out the portions and Put it in containers.

You can eat with the family...make the 1 meal a day match theirs...i.e. if they are having steak...then that is your meal and use fitday to make sure you are getting what you need...it is only really critical when you are cutting...you can have a meal that is not "perfect" when bulking -easily.

For cutting...To borrow again from Linda...
Meal 1 - oatmeal and eggs 
Meal 2 - protein shake 
Meal 3 - chicken or fish and some brown rice, huge mixed color salad
Meal 4- yogurt with protein powder and nuts 
Meal 5 -  Meal 3 but maybe a yam instead and increase protein and veggie amounts 
Meal 6 - protein shake



So an example of a 3 month period of cardio should look like this:

For your cardio...that is only for when you cut. 
When bulking, only if needed! 3x20 minutes and no more.  Use diet to keep the fat off!

As for the changes...it is better to do this:
2 weeks - treadmill - 3 days - 30 minutes - Low/moderate intensity
2 weeks - treadmill - 3 days - 30 minutes - moderate intensity
2 weeks - treadmill - 3 days - 30 minutes - high intensity
2 weeks - eliptical - 3 days - 30 minutes - Low/moderate intensity intervals
2 weeks - eliptical - 3 days - 30 minutes - moderate intensity
2 weeks - eliptical - 3 days - 30 minutes - moderate intensity intervals
Complete rest 1 week
2 weeks - Stationery bike - 3 days - 30 minutes - Low/moderate intensity intervals
etc...

Make the least amount of change to keep the fat burning off!
Only add time as needed if you hit a plateau.
When it gets down to the wire...add time and perhaps AS A LAST RESORT 1 more day.

You should post a Kre-Alkalyn review in the supplements section!
<message edited by danmirage on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:20 AM>
CrimsonFury

  • Total Posts : 10
  • Reward points : 10
  • Joined: 1/30/2006
  • Status: offline
RE: Am I on the right track? - Wednesday, February 01, 2006 1:05 PM
So Dan,
 
I hear that having 5-6 meals a day broken down into calorie servings, while focusing on protein, clean carbs and plenty of veggies would be best?
 
Would my meals be any different from bulking to cutting except calorie count?
 
Would this be an ok break down:
 
Meal 1 (breakfast)
Multivitamin
Bran muffin
1 egg cooked, scrambled
Orange
Glass of milk
 
Meal 2 (brunch)
1/2 Can tuna
1 rice cake
grapes
 
Meal 3 (lunch)
turkey breast sandwich (light margarine, 2 pieces whole grain bread, swiss cheese, lettuce and mustard)
1/4 cup celery (raw)
1/4 cup carrots (raw)
cup apple juice
 
Meal 4 (pre dinner)
1/2 can tuna
1/2 cup wild brown rice
1/4 cup red peppers (raw)
 
Meal 5 (dinner)
1 serving Chicken breast (or fish filet)
1 serving wild brown rice (or whole grain pasta or red patatoes)
1 serving corn (or peas, broccoli, carrots, etc.)
1 cup of milk
 
Meal 6 (pre workout)
protein shake with glutamine and milk and 1/2 banana
Creatine and HMB
 
Meal 7 (post workout)
protein shake with glutamine and milk and 1/2 banana
Creatine and HMB
 
Let me know if I'm on the right track.
 
Thanks!
 
Dan
-----------------------------------
5'11
180 lbs.
8-9 % bf.
Bench 295 lbs.
danmirage

  • Total Posts : 6098
  • Reward points : 10
  • Joined: 11/20/2005
  • Status: offline
RE: Am I on the right track? - Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:03 PM

Would my meals be any different from bulking to cutting except calorie count?
 
Not initially, however, if you have to cut calories at the end of a cutting cycle to get at that last bit of undesireable fat, you want to keep enough protein to hold your muscle.
 
I could answer your question, but I invite you to use the fitday.com free meal journal and put that food in there and THEN post the calories, Protein, carbs and fat (including %) here...then I will give you my full opinion.
 

Let me know if I'm on the right track.
 
You are, but you need to see the results of what I suggest...you will be surprised perhaps...and you will have a new skill that will be very useful.
 
Lookin real good though!
 
CrimsonFury

  • Total Posts : 10
  • Reward points : 10
  • Joined: 1/30/2006
  • Status: offline
RE: Am I on the right track? - Thursday, February 02, 2006 6:03 AM
Hi Dan,
 
here is the breakdown of the calories and nutrients without the 2 protein shakes I posted above:
 




Calories Eaten Today

source
grams 
cals
%total

Total:
 
3300 
 

Fat:
80 
720 
22%

  Sat:
23 
211 
7%

  Poly:
23 
211 
7%

  Mono:
25 
222 
7%

Carbs:
431 
1598 
49%

  Fiber:
32 

0%

Protein:
228 
914 
28%

Alcohol:


0%
 
Here is the food added for a day:
 




Today's Foods

 
Food Name
Servings
Serving Size
Cals
Fat
Carb
Prot


Egg, whole, poached

cupextra largejumbolargemediumsmallQuantity not specified
74
5
1
6


Muffin, oat bran

extra large muffin (3-1/2" dia)large muffin (3-1/4" dia)miniature muffin (1-1/4" dia)medium muffin (2-3/4" dia)small muffin (2-1/2" dia)Quantity not specified
383
11
69
10


Orange, raw

cup, sectionsoz yieldslarge (3-1/16" dia)medium (2-5/8" dia)section or slicesmall (2-3/8" dia)Quantity not specified
62
0
15
1


Milk, NFS

cupfl ozGuideline amount per fl oz of beverageGuideline amount per cup of hot cerealGuideline amount per cup of cold cerealQuantity not specified
247
10
23
16


Tuna, canned, oil pack

cup, solid or chunks, drainedozcan (13 oz), drainedcan (6.5 oz), drainedQuantity not specified
578
24
0
85


Snacks, rice cakes, brown rice, rye

cakecakes
35
0
7
1


Grapes, raw, NS as to type

cup, NFScup, seedlesscup, with seeds, yieldsoz, seeded, yieldsgrape, NFSgrape, seedlessgrape, with seeds, yieldsQuantity not specified
114
1
28
1


OSCAR MAYER, Turkey Breast (smoked, fat free)

servingslice
42
0
2
8


Bread, multigrain

large sliceregular slicethin sliceQuantity not specified
130
2
24
5


Cheese, Swiss

cup, dicedcup, meltedcup, shreddedcubic inchslice (1 oz)Quantity not specified
107
8
1
8


Lettuce, raw

cup, shredded or choppedoz, raw, yieldslarge headlarge leafmedium head (6" dia)medium leafsmall headsmall leafQuantity not specified
2
0
0
0


Celery, raw

cup, NFScup, dicedcup, stripsoz, raw, yieldslarge stalk (11" - 12" long)medium stalk (7-1/2" - 8" long)small stalk (5" long)strip (4" long)fennel bulbQuantity not specified
10
0
2
0


Carrots, raw

cup, NFScup, choppedcup, gratedcup, strips or slicesoz, raw, yieldsbaby carrotlarge (7-1/4" to 8-1/2" long)large strip (3" long)mediummedium stripslicesmall (5-1/2" long)thin stripQuantity not specified
31
0
7
1


Apple juice

cupfl ozdrink box (8.45 fl oz)Quantity not specified
117
0
29
0


Rice, brown, long-grain, cooked

cup
216
2
45
5


Pepper, sweet, red, raw

cup, NFScup, choppedcup, slicedoz, raw, yieldslarge (2.25 per pound, approx 3-3/4"...medium (approx 2-3/4" long, 2-1/2" dia)ring (3" dia, 1/4" thick)small (5 per pound)Quantity not specified
5
0
1
0


Chicken, breast, with or without bone, stewed, skin not eaten

cup, cooked, dicedoz, boneless, cooked (yield after sk...oz, boneless, cooked, skinlessoz, boneless, raw (yield after cooki...oz, boneless, raw, without skin (yie...oz, with bone, cooked (yield after b...oz, with bone, cooked, without skin ...oz, with bone, raw (yield after cook...oz, with bone, raw, without skin (yi...cubic inch, boneless, cooked, skin r...breast quarter (yield after cooking,...medium slice (approx 2" x 1-1/2" x 1/4")thick slice (approx 2" x 1-1/2" x 3/8")thin slice (approx 2" x 1-1/2" x 1/8")large breast (yield after cooking, b...medium breast (yield after cooking, ...small breast (yield after cooking, b...Quantity not specified
285
6
0
55


Pasta, whole wheat, with tomato sauce, meatless

cupQuantity not specified
257
3
53
10


Corn, yellow

cup
606
8
123
16

Totals
3300
80
431
228
 
Let me know what you think!
Dan
-----------------------------------
5'11
180 lbs.
8-9 % bf.
Bench 295 lbs.
danmirage

  • Total Posts : 6098
  • Reward points : 10
  • Joined: 11/20/2005
  • Status: offline
RE: Am I on the right track? - Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:55 PM
Wow!
 
3300 Cals
Fat 80g 22%
Carbs 431g 49%
Protein 228 g 28%
 
Without the protein shakes!  Without the milk and banana?  That protein must be closer to 300. 
 
You have ~ 7 meals.  You should check every meal by itself on fitday and make sure you get the protein around 25-30 grams per meal.  This will likely lower your protein and overall calories...if you adjust cardio down that should cover it.  If it is too low, maybe add some fat or some carbs...you know which preference you are for energy?
 
You should definitely add those shakes in, you can add custom items if you need to.  Now...you can use this to customize a meal plan, get that PLAN, that you will eat by for a whole week, then you check your stats and make sure you are making the desired progress.
 
Now, if you are "bulking"...you have a much better grasp on where your intake is!
I am guessing that at 3200-3300 in this same ratio (you look to be at 3800ish) you could be gaining lean ...as you gain weight and muscle, you also burn more calories so you will have to add as you go to keep gaining!  Don't set your calories too high too soon...otherwise you have to eat even more!
 
You have to watch your body composition and weight to be sure you are gaining what you want...I gave you a 'key" in a post above on how to monitor and adjust.
 
While you are gaining, keep the cardio to a minimum...3x20 minutes a week at most.  Then when you get ready to trim it down...start to turn up the heat!
 
When you go to cut...as I said you slowly make changes!  First lower the calories 500.  Go a week and observe, when the losses slow, add cardio, etc, etc!
 
You have done a great job so far...now you have some tools to really dial in gaining and cutting!

Jump to:

Current active users
There are 0 members and 1 guests.
Icon Legend and Permission
  • New Messages
  • No New Messages
  • Hot Topic w/ New Messages
  • Hot Topic w/o New Messages
  • Locked w/ New Messages
  • Locked w/o New Messages
  • Read Message
  • Post New Thread
  • Reply to message
  • Post New Poll
  • Submit Vote
  • Post reward post
  • Delete my own posts
  • Delete my own threads
  • Rate post

DiscussBodybuilding.com is supported by:
Supplements 101 | NoBullBodybuilding.com | JustAskMarc.com
© 2003-2008 DiscussBodybuilding.com, LLC. All rights reserved.
© 2000-2008 ASPPlayground.NET Forum Version 3.1.5
DiscussBodybuilding.com