Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? Many questions... help!

When you say "if you do not currently perform cardio training, simply starting with the 3 progressive weeks of standard cardio I recommended would be sufficient"... Im assuming you mean the plan to just do cardio warm-up & cool-down for 2-3 weeks right?

No.  You missed that post?  Note you would still also do the warm up and cool down!

"If your cardio fitness is low...start with doing 10 minutes post workout for a week then 12 minutes the next week, then 14 minutes the next week...these would be done at a rate that allows you to talk but not with ease because of breath...a heart rate of around 65% of Maximal (220- your age)"

 
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Protein Blend (Whey Protein Isolate, Whey Protein Concentrate, Whey Peptides), Cocoa, Fructose, Lecithin, Natural Flavor.
 
Though I use this product most
Pure Whey

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My bad, Dan - I totally forgot that you had posted that!  Thanks for reminding me on the cardio.
 
OK, revising my meal plan now - I'll post it after work later tonite.  Thanks again all

- GABE

Excellent, we did cover a ton of info!
 
Might go back and read through again and makes notes to finalize it!

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Sorry this took a while to get posted - work has been swamped the past 2 days.
 
OK, here's my revised meal plan with lower protein/fat and higher carbs.  I was shooting for a 20/60/20 p/c/f and I managed to hit it perfectly with my daily totals :)  I also varied my "colors" by adding green peppers/onions/carrots (even though Im not a big fan of carrots lol - but I can tolerate them for HEALTH!!)
 
As for the garlic and cilantro - great suggestions - but how much should I shoot for daily?  Like if I flavor my foods with them, will that be enough, or should I consider supplementing them?
 
 
 
::  Meal 1  ::
 
Oatmeal – 3 cups
Mushrooms – 2 cups
Olive oil – 1/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 559
Total Mass = 25g/92g/13g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 20%-57%-23%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 2  ::
 
Extra Lean Ground Beef – 2 oz
Baked Potato – 2 cup
Onion – 2.5 cup
Green Pepper – 2.5 cup
Olive oil – 1/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 567
Total Mass = 22g/94g/13g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 17%-61%-23%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 3  ::
 
Tuna – 1 oz
Leaf Lettuce – 4 leaves
Wheat Pasta – 1 2/3 cup
Olive oil – 2/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 580
Total Mass = 23g/92g/13g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 18%-91%-22%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 3 (Alternate) ::   This was created in response to the “don’t eat too much fish because of mercury” issue…  I figured I could just swap this and the other Meal 3 around different days of the weak to limit my Tuna intake.
 
Ground Turkey – 2 oz
Wheat Pasta – 1 1/4 cup
Steamed Carrots – 2 cups
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 596
Total Mass = 25g/94g/13g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 19%-59%-22%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 4  ::
 
Tilapia – 1/2 fillet
Brown Rice – 1 1/3 cup
Steamed Broccoli – 1 cups
Olive oil – 3/4 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 558
Total Mass = 23g/92g/14g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 17%-61%-22%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 5  ::
 
Chicken – 1/4 breast
Baked Potato – 2 1/3 cup
Green Beans – 3 1/2 cup
Olive oil – 3/4 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 558
Total Mass = 23g/96g/13g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 17%-60%-23% (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 6  ::
 
Whey Supplement – 40.5g (pre-workout)
Whey Supplement – 21.5g (post-workout)
EFA Pills – 3 pills
Water – 14 oz
 
Total Calories = 279
Total Mass = 30g (pre) + 16g (post)/10g/6g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 67%-14%-19%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  TOTALS  ::
 
Total Daily Calories = 3117
Total Daily Mass = 162g/478g/72g  (p/c/f)
Actual Daily Ratio = 20%-60%-20%  (p/c/f)
Total Water w/ Meals = 114 fl oz

- GABE

Why the EFAs post workout?
 
For some people 60% might be a high carb amount for fat loss.
 
Also Pasta is not an ideal food for fat loss (it is processed.)  Try baked sweet potato...etc.
 
It is possible you might have gone too far the other way...if you are at all sensitive to carbs then it may make it hard to lose fat.
 
However, you could go the first weeks with this and then start to change after you have control.

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Oh, the EFA thing - didn't actually mean to take those with that meal.  I was just trying to work their values into my daily total.  I'd take them with a normal meal.  I'll go ahead and refactor that into an actual meal.
 
OK, so 33/33/33 was not so hot, and 20/60/20 is probably a lil too far in the other extreme... what would you say about 25/50/25 ??  I know you said "(max) Protein at 25% - (min) Carbs 45% and (max)fat 30%", but is that what you'd like me to actually try for?  I'd kinda like to get an exact figure to aim for from you because reworking this whole meal plan takes a lotta time
 
Also, this is complete speculation... however, I'm inclined to think that I am a carb-sensitive person simply from the fact that I lost so much weight so quickly on ketogenic diets, without doing much exercise at all.  Thoughts on this?
 
Thanks

- GABE

Also, this is complete speculation... however, I'm inclined to think that I am a carb-sensitive person simply from the fact that I lost so much weight so quickly on ketogenic diets, without doing much exercise at all.  Thoughts on this?

Rubbish.  You gained it right back right?  Nonsense.  Ignore it.
 

is that what you'd like me to actually try for?  I'd kinda like to get an exact figure to aim for from you because reworking this whole meal plan takes a lotta time

As I said, without testing you and working with you personally, I can only show you how to find the ideal ratio for you.  Every person is different and every person does not respond the same to a given ratio.
 
That said...25/50/25 is a decent middle of the road.
 
After you eat that way for a week, you will have plenty of input to adjust from!
It can take 3 weeks to get dialed in.
 
Thats all part of the process.  But once you learn how you respond to all the different ratios (you will learn over time) and which one you maintain on best, you know for the rest of your life!

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Perfectly undersood - I'll post another revised meal plan based around 25/50/25 tonite
 
I understand that changes will probably need to take place down the road as we fine tune the diet based upon results Im seeing (or lack thereof)

- GABE

You have already learned a new skill..that is progress.

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LOL, true - can't argue that   
 
Again, as for the garlic and cilantro - great suggestions - but how much should I shoot for daily?  Like if I flavor my foods with them, will that be enough, or should I consider supplementing them?
 
OK, how is this?
 
 
::  Meal 1  ::
 
Oatmeal – 2 2/3 cups
Mushrooms – 1 cups
Olive oil – 2/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 545
Total Mass = 29g/75g/16g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 23%-48%-29%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 2  ::
 
Extra Lean Ground Beef – 3.5 oz
Baked Potato – 2 cup
Onion – 1 1/4 cup
Green Pepper – 1 cup
EFA Pills – 3 pills
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 557
Total Mass = 29g/73g/17g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 22%-49%-29%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 3  ::
 
Tuna – 2.5 oz
Leaf Lettuce – 2 cups
Yams – 2 1/4 cup
Olive oil – 1 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 564
Total Mass = 25g/87g/15g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 19%-56%-25%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 3 (Alternate) ::   This was created in response to the “don’t eat too much fish because of mercury” issue…  I figured I could just swap this and the other Meal 3 around different days of the weak to limit my Tuna intake.
 
Ground Turkey – 4 oz
Yams – 1 1/4 cup
Steamed Carrots – 2 cups
Olive Oil – 1/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 540
Total Mass = 28g/73g/16g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 23%-48%-29%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 4  ::
 
Tilapia – 1 fillet
Brown Rice – 1 cup
Steamed Broccoli – 2 cups
Olive oil – 1 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 557
Total Mass = 33g/73g/17g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 24%-48%-28%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 5  ::
 
Chicken – 1/2 breast
Baked Potato – 2 1/4 cups
Green Beans – 2 cups
Olive oil – 4/5 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 556
Total Mass = 29g/81g/16g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 22%-52%-27% (p/c/f)
 
 
::  Meal 6  ::
 
Whey Supplement – 40.5g (pre-workout)
Whey Supplement – 21.5g (post-workout)
Water – 14 oz
 
Total Calories = 249
Total Mass = 46g/10g/3g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 74%-15%-10%  (p/c/f)
 
 
::  TOTALS  ::
 
Total Daily Calories = 3016
Total Daily Mass = 192g/392g/84g  (p/c/f)
Actual Daily Ratio = 25%-51%-24%  (p/c/f)
Total Water w/ Meals = 114 fl oz

- GABE

You may need to check some numbers and adjust.
 

Oatmeal – 2 2/3 cups
Mushrooms – 1 cups
Olive oil – 2/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
 
Total Calories = 545
Total Mass = 29g/75g/16g  (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 23%-48%-29%  (p/c/f)

Where do you get 29 grams of protein here?
 
Cal  F  C  P
363 6 63 15 Oatmeal, cooked, regular, fat not added in cooking 2.5 cup-cooked 
18   0 3   2  Mushrooms, raw 1 cup, 
79   9 0   0  Olive oil 2/3 tablespoon
Totals 
460  /15 /66 /17 
Calories/Fat/Carb/Protein
 
So you see nearly 1/2 the protein you report...
 
As for the garlic/cilantro..
if you add egg whites to the Meal #1 to get the protein..add it there, and in the potato, tuna, chicken...
 
At least 500 mg vit C.  An advanced anti-oxidant if you can....

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LOL whoops, yeh, I actually had 1/2 cup of Egg Whites in there on Meal 1 and I totally forgot to list it here.  Anyways, thats how I got the posted numbers for that meal - it's legit, I promise
 
So, if I season my foods with garlic/cilantro, I will get enough of the good stuff from them daily?  Between those, and my Multivitamin which says it has Antioxidants, is that enough daily?  Or should I find an additional Antioxidant supplement?
 
And I should add 500mg Vitamin C daily, right?
 
 
Other than that - I think this pretty much wraps up my questions regarding the nutrition part.  Im gonna go ahead stick to this meal plan for the first week since you didn't seem to have any major revisions to put in place
 
I'll post my training plan shortly for inspection

- GABE

Sounds good all around..adding the 500mg of C would be good...mid day meal preferably.

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OK, here's my training plan that I had made up to get me started.  Please inspect!
 
 
 
3 Week Training Plan

 
-          Resistance training time not to exceed 40 mins!
-          Total training time (w/ cardio) not to exceed 75 mins!
-          Rest 60-90 secs between sets
-          Reps/ Sets/Weight format


 
 
::  Week 1  ::
 
Monday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Squats] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams - Leg Curls] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Military Press] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Flyes] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Rows] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Dumbbell Curls] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Overhead Triceps Ext.] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Standing Calf Press] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Crunches] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
               
                Wednesday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Leg Extensions] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams – Stiff-Leg Deadlift] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Upright Row] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Bench Press] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Deadlifts] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Hammer Curls] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Skull Crusher] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Seated Calf Press] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Captain’s Chair Leg Raise] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
 
                Friday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Leg Press] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams – Leg Curls] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Rear Lat Raise] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Dips] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Lat Pull-Downs] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Barbell Curls] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Pressdown] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Standing Calf Press] – 20/1/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Reverse Crunches] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
 
 
::  Week 2  ::
 
Monday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Squats] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams - Leg Curls] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Military Press] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Flyes] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Rows] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Dumbbell Curls] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Overhead Triceps Ext.] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Standing Calf Press] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Crunches] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
               
                Wednesday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Leg Extensions] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams – Stiff-Leg Deadlift] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Upright Row] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Bench Press] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Deadlifts] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Hammer Curls] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Skull Crusher] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Seated Calf Press] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Captain’s Chair Leg Raise] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
 
                Friday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Leg Press] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams – Leg Curls] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Rear Lat Raise] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Dips] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Lat Pull-Downs] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Barbell Curls] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Pressdown] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Standing Calf Press] – 15/2/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Reverse Crunches] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
 
 
::  Week 3  ::
 
Monday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Squats] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams - Leg Curls] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Military Press] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Flyes] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Rows] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Dumbbell Curls] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Overhead Triceps Ext.] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Standing Calf Press] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Crunches] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
               
                Wednesday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Leg Extensions] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams – Stiff-Leg Deadlift] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Upright Row] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Bench Press] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Deadlifts] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Hammer Curls] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Skull Crusher] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Seated Calf Press] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Captain’s Chair Leg Raise] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
 
                Friday
Warm-up Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
Legs [Quads – Leg Press] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Legs [Hams – Leg Curls] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Shoulders [Rear Lat Raise] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Chest [Dips] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Back [Lat Pull-Downs] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Biceps [Barbell Curls] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Triceps [Pressdown] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Calf [Standing Calf Press] – 10/3/?  (weight to NEAR failure @ 20 reps)
Abs [Reverse Crunches] –  to NEAR failure
Cool-down Cardio [Treadmill] – 5 mins
 
 
One question I had was:
 
What about the "off" days in between my training days?  Could I do cardio every day to help the fat burn, or would you recommend that I take a day off in between?  If no cardio daily, could/should I at least like walk around the block, play a sport (not like super hard), or do something?  I kinda HATE the idea of just sitting around every other day, unless of course, that is recommended.   Thanks so much again!

- GABE

Looking at this, it looks like a good plan, but as said in this before, take this process slow... don't overdo yourself.... They one thing that could realistically keep you from your goals is way over doing it, then quitting...

This week was the first week (after a year sadly) that I have actually done cardio 6 days in a row... and I will be honest, I feel pretty rough, and this was only 35 minutes of moderate to moderate high intensity....

Get used to what your doing... and right now, do what feels right, not nessesarily the "perfect" plan off the bat... Just get in the gym and sweat...you will find if you go in there with a decent plan and do good at that plan you will want to do more naturally, and not have that "I have to" feel... sure... Get your lifting in... Sure get 30-40 minutes of cardio in.... but dont take yourself to the point in which it turns into the house of pain, and then you dread going.... I often find my off days are great days to take measurements, get my workout plan for the next 3day set and such... If you FEEL like you will be able to do cardio on your offdays then do it.... but if you feel overtrained take a day off.... I would say 4-6 days of cardio is a good range... you may do a week with 6 days straight of cardio... that may mean the next week you may only want to do 5 or so...

Eat...Lift....Sleep......Repeat

Enjoy the process.. but crave the goal.

gotcha - makes perfect sense 

- GABE

hey man I just want to offer my encouragement. Its going to be a long road ahead but you'll be better for it once your done.

Oh and one thing you might consider is taking some before and progress pictures. I know they really help me in my own pursuit, I can see what has changed. That and seeing abs on a guy in your situation would really motivate me. I can be selfish in your pursuit of fitness cant I?

But Yeah keep it up and dont give up. Theres going to be times when its easier to give up but keep plugging along man.

Oh and good luck.


ps. I would give you some advice but your in good hands the way that it is, those guys know way more than I do.

Gin Rummy: Simply because you don't have evidence that something does exist does not mean you have evidence of something that doesn't exist.(from the boondocks)

I have been debating posting this, but heck... since I wont shut it, I want to share with you my experience of what I have gone through....

Its a very long... and zig zagged read.... but my attention span is one of an ant...  

Sorry for spelling... cant install the spell check at work... dang I.T....

As I said before, I started this program at 300LBS.... but when I started I wasnt doing anything compaired to what I am doing right now... but let me explain why if I could change it, I probably wouldnt..... Had I dont it differently I very well could have failed, as it was critical for me to listen to my body... and do what "Felt" right.... Now "Feeling right" isnt a reason to not push yourself.... push yourself hard, but not so hard that yor going to pass out, or just hate life... sometimes that is a very small line in between for me....


So, back to the begining... I was 300 LBS.... 45-50% or so BF... I was lazy... and let myself get to where I was using every excuse in the book... having twins at 18, then another 3 year old a few years ago gave me a good reason to be unfit because I had no time, nor money....

Around Feb of last year "06" I went to the doctor for a funny dizzy vertigo feeling... after going in it was determined that my blood pressure was dangerously high... which was never a problem for me in the past... ALthough they said my weight wasnt the "Primary" cause, it certianly was a contributor.... I was sick all the time... I dont have a spleen so my immune system is crap... well again, another cruthch...... I was calling in sick to my job all the time... and I'm a manager to boot.... so bad combo.... My boss sat my down and told me yes... my spleen being gone is a problem... but being overly obese is also a huge factor of this.... so... the journy began.... bumpy... but none the less it did...

To help my BP problem I decided to cut out french fries and Chips.... yes this began with cutting those 2 things.... I still had burgers and soda... but a step in the right direction...... After 2 weeks I felt better... and get this, I LOST A FEW POUNDS... for the first time in years I went down, not up..... Then I started thinking... What if I diet and not only cut fries and chips, but cut all the crap as well... candy... ice cream.. sweets... burgers... you know.. the "Crap"..

Well after cutting the crap for a week, guess what, I FELT EVEN BETTER AND LOST A POUND OR TWO.... so being the obsesive little beast I was.... I went to an extreme.... (If you get to know me more, youll find in the end I am really an all or nothing kind of guy) That extreme was a massive reduction of calories... No crap.. very low carbs... and very few calories.... sadly this was 300-500 a day... look back through my first posts, youll see where I came here worried about this..... I became an anorexic fat guy.... I was loseing weight overnight... loseing weight during the day... just loseing massive weight... well in 2-3 weeks I lost 20 pounds..... Felt like crap... was dragging... but still obsessive... to the point in which I have a great deal of guilt when I ate... (Something I am still having to battle from time to time... cheat days dont do well for me )

I then came to this site and realized that I was probably loseing alot of water and muscle with this..... this pissed me off to no end... then I realized... hey... If I had enough dedication to only eat 300-500 cals a day... then I could have a much easier time eating full complex meals which would speed up my meatabolism...

During this period I also started a gym membership at LA Fitness... and was working out while on the 300-500 calorie a day diet...  I started with a crappy upper lower spilt.... nothing else.... a 2 day set... day 1 was everything upper (which I know I was missing so much now lol) then day 2 was Legs... with 5-10 minutes of a bike..... after a week of the bike I felt the need to gradutate to olipicals.... didnt go welll... drove me into the ground... so back to the bikes I went.....

Then I found out about the push/Legs/Pull split that I am doing now and added a plethora of new lifts to my routine... but I was also using pure machines during this time....

Here is the thing... I was on Machines..... mabe not the most effective, but I was there working my butt off, smelling like a dirty sock factory.... exorcise bikes... yep, not the best but I was doing them.... better than standing around....

During this phase shift I started eating alot more calories... somewhere in the ballpark of 3500-3800 a day.... 7-8 times a day... guess what... I LOST WEIGHT.... not as much.... but I had 10X the energy level and was loseing 2-3 pounds a week.... and felt great....

After a while of this, lifting began to dominate my workouts, I was loving the pain, and drove myself harder and harder... to the point in which I gave up cardio completely and just lifted and lifted...... My loss slowed to 1-2 poounds a week, but was stil loseing....

Again, after a few months, I decided to start cardio again, and moved with ease to olipticals... and this time felt much better.... I really dont feel i was ready for olipticals when I first started... but hey, I had to work up to it... not I was doing olipticals for 15-20 mintues a day with moderate intensity... and the weightloss was still about a 2 lbs a week constant loss....

After about a month of this (now where talking 6-7 months into this journey) I felt the need and ambishion to move to freeweight... which I had failed at doing well several times (Again... I don't think I was totally ready)... and I started doing great... but then I ran into a few problems... I tweaked my shoulder out... dinked my hamstrings up.. and pulled my chest over the next few months.... it really set me back... but I learned, I had to leave my pride at the door... and if I needed to use 10LB Bench presses and squats to build up I would... and eventually I did... Once December hit, I fell off a bit.... I was only going to the gym 2-3 days a week, and kept hurting myself in little nagging ways.... my diet was still decent, no garbage, but was only eating 3-4 times a day, so the loss slowed down ALOT.... like mabe .5 lbs a week... but I was maintaining....

After about 2 months of this dinking around and feeling frusterated about no weight loss.... I realized IT WAS ME.... no one else... I had slowed down my own progress.... I ate less.... meals... not enough calroies and stopped cardio... What now.... time to go back to the drawing board.... fixed up the diet... started back in the gym consistantly, but it just didnt feel right.... It felt like a job... I was dreading squats (EEEEGAAAAD.. I KNOW...) Then I came to a startling lesson.... I forgot why I started this in the first place... why I began to get so obsessive... I lost the emotionally tagged why.... what was my why??? Nope.... not the health... nope, not even to live a long healthy life (thats just a result of the bigger picture)... I wanted to become a muscle bound beast, in which people's eyes get big and think thats discusting.... ehehe.. silly eh??? But guess what... everytime I think of that, its like a shot of NOS and max RPM...  I stopped thinking about the why every waking moment... thats how I almost fell off a few months ago.....

Now, I'm in a more serious mode than I ever was when I lost the bulk of the 95 pounds... My diet is solid 6-7 times a day... My workouts are extremely solid... And cardio... yes.. the cardio is their.... having people being disgusted at the amount of muscle I have wont come without cardio... so now I am on 35 minutes a night on the oliptical.... Working muscles in ways that I never knew were possible, and am actually getting compliments from some of the biggest fellas in the gym about my progress....



If your still reading this, The reason I wrote all of this out is simple.... If 14 months ago I had changed my entire life to what I am doing now I would have failed... I wouldnt have made it a week....

If I started off the bat eating 6-7 meals a day, 3500 calories, cutting all the crap, lifting to failure, and working every muscle group weekly, with 6 days a week of 35 minutes of cardio, I am certian I would have not made it....

If I could have done it with no risk of failing, I still wouldnt have changed a thing... Why.. Because I learned first hand on why Starvation diets dont work... I learned why it is so important to get cardio in for weight loss... I learned why its healthy to switch between freeweights and machines to stimulate overall developemnt... These have been important life long lessons I will pass on to the masses for the rest of my life....


The most important thing to remember is, if you cannot start off doing it the right way... understand that it is not the right way, and dont trick yourself into thinking it is okay to stay there.... If you find you cant do cardio every lift night, tell yourself... okay... I cant do this right now, and I know I should... but I will only do this a few times until I can get the stamina to do it....

If you skip a meal... dont tell yourself that its okay... nothin is wrong with it... admit to yourself that not eating that meal will be detrimental, but because of "X" reason, I wont be able to, but this is just a lesson I leanred and will prepair better next time...

Its OK to fall off... but dont be okay with it... accept you fell... and get back up, and learn from the fall..... If you learn to listen to your body, you can make this goal happen...

Eat...Lift....Sleep......Repeat

Enjoy the process.. but crave the goal.

What about the "off" days in between my training days?  Could I do cardio every day to help the fat burn, or would you recommend that I take a day off in between?  If no cardio daily, could/should I at least like walk around the block, play a sport (not like super hard), or do something?  I kinda HATE the idea of just sitting around every other day, unless of course, that is recommended.

 
Let me refer you back to page one:
 

for the 2-3 weeks just 5-7 minutes warm up and cool down before/after your resistance training...until you understand your maintenance figure. Do not cold static-stretch before training.

 
Once you understand your maintenance figure:
 

If your cardio fitness is low...start with doing 10 minutes post workout for a week then 12 minutes the next week, then 14 minutes the next week...these would be done at a rate that allows you to talk but not with ease because of breath...a heart rate of around 65% of Maximal (220- your age)
 
..then look at the 8 week HIIT program linked from the Losing Fat thread...follow the links on the page to the actual program! 

 
On the off days, eat right and rest.
When you start cardio, at first just do it following your trianing. 
That is just 3-days a week.
 
Re-read the cardio portion of the losing fat post.  I explaine the problem with starting off with doing cardio 6-days a week.  Cardio should be progressive in nature if it is to give you continuous results.  The body adapts very quickly to it.

 

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Dan, is there any way I could work some fruits into my meal plan without doing damage (or hindering progress)?   To be honest, Im much more of a fruit person than a veggie person... I'd enjoy this a lot more if I could replace a couple veggies with some sorts of fruits
 
Just shoot me straight

- GABE

ORIGINAL: drastic
Dan, is there any way I could work some fruits into my meal plan without doing damage (or hindering progress)?   To be honest, Im much more of a fruit person than a veggie person... I'd enjoy this a lot more if I could replace a couple veggies with some sorts of fruits

Meal 6 -Post workout - I would add in a banana with that whey.
 
I also don't see any harm in adding an apple in pre-workout.

its not really the addition of fruits that I was after... more as in like, could i replace some of those veggies with some sorta fruit or?  (I really dont care much for carrots/yams)

- GABE

If there are vegetables you do not prefer, then select vegetables that you do like
Do you like Kale, chard, broccoli, butternut squash, spinach, zucchini, salads...
(Just a note that vegetables are higher in vitamins and minerals than fruits and are more alkalizing.)
 
Yams are a carb...if you don't like baked yams use another whole food carb source.
Do you prefer rice, potato, quinoa...
 
Lets just be clear...when the goal is fat loss, fruit is not generally an optimal food.
 
While fruit is VERY healthy and full of phyto-nutrition, many people respond to fruits in a manner that makes fat loss more difficult.
 
The exception is as Lady C points out.  That being that in the post workout period you can consume the higher sugar carbs and it can be actually highly anabolic.  Still, for someone with a maximum fat loss goal it may be a challenge.
 
What makes fruit during fat loss ok for some people and not ok for many people?  Individual body chemistry.
 
I test clients to determine their unique body chemistry so we can fine tune based on that.  You can observe your response to fruits by going 2 weeks without and then exchanging them for some of the veggies/carbs in the diet.
 
After a week you can usually feel and even see any difference.

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P.S.  because you have potato in so many meals, perhaps consider another whole food carb in that meal to replace the yam.
 
Get creative and come up with meals that you'll enjoy eating! 
 

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I totally understand on the fruits thing - no big deal, I can work around it.
 
brocolli is fine, and i love rice & salads
 
I also love potatoes, but like you said, I didn't wanna over-do them.  The problem I seem to be having is finding starchy carbs that I truly like eating... there arent many LOL  I love black-eyed peas too, but they are high in protein, and sorta hard to mix into a meal ratio.  I'll do a bit of sub'ing tho

- GABE

String Beans? I find french cut are a bit more pleasant..
 
Spanish rice with Brown, or Batsami (spelling?) is great, add a bunch of tomatoes, onion, green chilies, and you can get both your starchy and fiborous in one sitting heck, even add chopped chicken breast and your all done..... Same thing with brown rice, broccolli, and chicken casserole is great... (not butter of course) again that is an entire balanced meal... goes great in lunch tupperware as well...
 
I have found that I dont respond well to peas, but that is my funky body...
 
Mashed yams can be quite good it made right... again easy for lunches as well.. nuke em, mash em, add a dash of skim milk, salt pepper, and garlic, and bam.. tasty orange goodness :)
 
Neither of you are on any type of thyroid meds right? Just checking as my wife was, and we didnt realize we had to be a bit more picky about the veggies we chose..
 
 
 
 

Eat...Lift....Sleep......Repeat

Enjoy the process.. but crave the goal.

nope, we're not - and thx for the suggestions, much appreciated!

- GABE

just an update - i went shopping last night finally, and started my meal plan today!  so excited

- GABE

Excellent.

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OK, here are some initial questions regarding the meal plan/nutrition...
 
1)  This seems like a TON of food every 3 hours.  And Im not especially hungry when the next meal time rolls around.  I feel like Im stuffing myself every 3 hours and it's really hard to convince myself that that's healthy... is this normal?
 
2)  Are there any "sauces" or something similar that are OK to use in moderation in/on these foods?  Hotsauce, anything?  LOL must find flavor!!  Most things are incredibly dry - dull taste I can put up with, but dry foods (i.e. lean meats/potatoes/etc) are very hard for me to tolerate   I have to chase every bite with water LOL
 
3)  Taking salt, etc outta most everything really challenges your palette to rework itself!  Are most spices OK?   (everything in moderation of course)  You guys have GOT to help me find a way to make plain oat meal taste a lil more intresting!!! 

- GABE