I am thinking about taking 1-ad and cycling with 6-oxo and i have read some stuff about testicles shrinking and a lower libido. When it says your testicles shrink i was wandering how much and does the manhood shrink any? and some are talking about stacking the 1 ad with HCG to keep up the libido. Any advice would be much appreciated

It's a risk associated with any chemical stimulation and production of testosterone that your body would shut down. However, that's the purpose of cycling in short durations.

You cycle so that before your body has any real permanent damage, you go off the testosterone boosting.. and use something like 6-OXO to block estrogen (body tries to balance it out by producing estrogen.. not what you want).

People have used 4-AD to help with the whole libido thing..

So a very beginner but popular stack among bodybuilders would be 1-AD stacked with 4-AD (4-6 weeks)... immediately followed by 6-OXO for 4-6 weeks. During the 6-OXO cycle you quit the 1-AD and 4-AD.

Shorter cycles will help you know your limits and do the best to prevent permanent damage to your body's natural ability to produce testosterone.

The manhood doesn't shrink. Only things that produce testosterone can shrink. And getting smaller isn't necessarily an indication of permanent damage.. but if you were to continue the cycle.. and they did get damaged.. they don't repair and everything is fine. Depends on if the shrinking is related to the stimulation of testosterone for a short time or permanent damage.

I think with any pro-hormone cycle if you really were that aware, you'd notice some size difference, but it would be temporary for those 4-6 weeks. People who go on longer cycles or cannot handle it as well can end up doing permanent damage and when they quit.. the size doesn't come back.

The testicles will also get "softer" while you are taking outside testosterone, but unless you are using a lot for a long time, that should reverse itself once you go off it.

Concerning Pro-Hormones (newbie speaking), I would think this would promote increase masculine features such as increased facial and/or body hair not testicle shrinkage. Does the body react to pro-hormones by trying to balance thereby reducing production of internal testosterone?

Kind of curious since I'm 42 and on the slow downside of testosterone production. I was looking at pro-hormones as a way to increase the ability of my body to build lean mass.

Any exogenous administration of a hormone that takes levels *above* normal ranges will cause the body to shutdown its own production through a negative feedback loop.

I understand the impact of a negative feedback loop and hence the use of 6-OXO to combat the estrogen increase. It seems Pro-hormones are meant for competition usage and not the average Joe wanting to increase muscle mass and shape his body.

I am not sure I agree with that last portion, what is your reasoning?

Definitely not scientific reasoning but subjective observation.

In the posts I have read so far people don't necessarily read instructions or truly understand the products they are consuming (e.g., products w/ ephedra). In the case of Creatine and dare I say Glutamine there seems very little chance for damage.

In my opinion (limited experience & knowledge), Pro-hormones have serious consequences if not used properly. This may put the average supplement user at greater risk.

Agreed. And I'd not recommend them to the "average" supplement user, only to the educated one.

But to say that it is only for "competitive" bodybuilders is probably a little extreme, considering such "users" are most likely using illegal, injectible AAS.

I've read that in actual testing DHEA and Androstenendione result is higher blood estrogen levels, but not higher testosterone levels. There's some speculation that estrogen is the feedback mechanism for testosterone production though, so in theory even this could result in your testicles slowing down natural testosterone production.

Personally, I don't take prohormones any more, I just feel that there hasn't been enough solid research on them and they are likely to have a lot more side effects than just taking testosterone. It just seems that loading up a step of the chemical pathway that's 12 or 7 or 4 steps upstream from testosterone leaves plenty of room for other chemical conversions, metabolic pathways aren't linear, after all. Of course, prohormones are legal, while testosterone usually isn't.

I agree that it's pretty challenging to hurt yourself with creatine and glutamine (not that some haven't met the challenge, I'm sure!), though keep in mind that some medical tests look at creatine excretion and the enzymes that handle creatine, so supplementation can throw these tests off.

DHEA and androstendione are very old prohormones and have very low oral bioavailability (they get destroyed by the liver). So yes, these won't do squat. But you certainly haven't kept up with the developments that have been happening very rapidly, to the point where several "prohormones" and "prosteroids" have caught up with your "illegal" variety.